the author posits that unconventional warfare often thought of as a modern means of war has a long tradition that dates back to antiquity. this is a little under an hour. >> everybody got quiet. good afternoon. welcome to the heritage foundation and to our elected by the was lerman auditorium. we welcome those who are joining a some of these occasions on our heritage website. for those and house as we prepare to begin, please make sure cell phones had been turned off. it is a courtesy that the speakers to appreciate. we will oppose the program within 24 hours on our heritage home page for your further reference as well. hosting our event today is steven bougie. director of r. douglass and sarah alice and center for policy studies. he previously served as senior research fellow for defense. the homeland security. he is well versed in the special area operations and cyber security areas as well as defense support to civil authority. he served for three decades as an army special forces officer in top pentagon official. in july 2001 he assumed the duties of military assistant to secretary rumsf

. >> well, yeah, jim, if you look at the unconventional resources in north america, there's a bountiful number of plays left to be discovered. and so the amount being produced today is at about a 15-year high in crude oil production. when we look at plays like the bakken, the eagleford, and core labs believes there's one, possibly two more oil unconventional plays left to be discovered north america. so, yes, with added technology, with fracking and our fractured diagnostic technology, we are helping our clients recover more and more of this unconventional oil. >> there may be two more big ones that we don't even know about yet? >> yeah, we believe there's one, possibly two left in north america that will come out over the next couple of years. >> that's incredible. now, i also detect some countries, looks like to me that mexico's getting back in the game and starting to drill much more seriously than it used to. >> yes, jim, that's exactly right. mexico's looking offshore now in the deep water. as you know the gulf of mexico deep water has been prolific, and that trend curves around to

kind of anything that scene is is going back to the way things were or something that's highly unconventional there's an element that. we don't even want to engage in a legitimate debate on these kinds of topics that kind of gets thrown out with the less credible critics of the fed the conspiracy theorists and all that and i think it's a shame really because i think there is scope we have a we have probably a better policy with sharper discussions and debates but can you say there was a difference between the way that conversation is is addressed in the u.s. versus in canada you said in canada there were these dialogues going on whereas in the lab there really there are you know i think within within the. within the canadian political environment the there are certain politicians maxine bernie other members of the conservative government who are you know raising the issues and and. and i think that's leading to a a legitimate debate say that look we've been through some pretty wild times here you know there the role of monetary policy the role of fiscal policy and how you know how we manage t

manage these things you know if if the fed itself and if other central banks are engaging in unconventional policies as we've seen then it's we're certainly and now at a point where probably there's a lot of scope for put a lot of issues on the table and i think now based in canada which is why we made that comparison there were out james savage there with that interview and also still ahead as the taxicabs system is modeled with regulation we check out a market antidote involving innovation in transportation we'll speak to cart and go as c.e.o. after the break the first your closing market numbers. choose your language. call it a killer though if somebody else and i say still some other. treatments that is the consensus here can. choose the opinions that immigrate to. cut choose the stories get into the life choose me access to your office. and any given city whether you're sitting in new york or london where many of our viewers are there is a cab industry and very likely regulations that govern it in new york the medallion system has become a speculative investment with corporate taxi med

they're being ravaged by unconventional warfare. >> this weekend, best-selling author max boot on the history of guerrilla warfare today at 7 p.m. eastern on c-span2. >> a look now at some books that are being published this week. former vice president al gore opines on social, political and economic issues that he believes will shape the world in "the future: six drivers of social change." in "congressman lincoln," attorney and political strategist chris derose recounts abraham lincoln's presidency. journalist sarah garland in "divided we fail." in "engineers of victory," historian paul kennedy details strategies used to secure allied victory. and political science professor jeanne theoharis in "the rebellious life of mrs. rosa parks." watch for the authors in the near future on booktv and on booktv.org. ♪ ♪ >> if we turn away from the needs of others, we align ourselves with those forces which are bringing about this suffering. >> the white house is a bully pulpit, and you ought to take advantage of it. >> obesity in this country is nothing short of a public health crisis. >> i thin

manage these things you know if if the fed itself and if other central banks are engaging in unconventional policies as we've seen then it's we're certainly out and now at a point where probably there's a lot of scope for put a lot of issues on the table and i he's now based in canada which is why we made that comparison there out james savage there with that interview and also still ahead as the taxicabs system is muddled with regulation we check out a market antidote involving innovation in transportation we'll speak to car to go as c.e.o. after the break but first your closing market numbers. little . three. three. three. three. three little lonely old freeboard video for your media project. done to our teeth on time. the time of. mourning. the be. cool. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so for you understand it and then something else you hear sees some other part of it and realize that everything is all you don't know i'm sorry welcome to the big picture. and any given city whether you're sitting in new york or london where many of our viewers are there is a cab industry

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clearly that will involve developing the natural gas and these unconventional oil resources. how much will largely be a matter of policy. >> and fred, from your point of view, are you relaxed about this whole upsurge of the cracking energy, it seemed to have happened so fast. or in other parts of the world there are very big misgivings about it. france has temporarily banned it and so on. >> relaxed is not the word i would have chosen. [laughter] >> this has become a extraordinarily contentious issue. one of the reasons it's been contentious is there are impacts on the communities and too often up until now many companies have -- shell is an exception to this. but many companies have denied there are any impacts. so the community sees their water contaminated, not necessarily by fractures, but by spills on the surface or wells that haven't been drilled properly and cement casings that fail, communities see their water getting contaminated by natural gas operations. industry says it's not the fractures. i visited in washington, pennsylvania, 30 minutes south of pittsburgh, as

again, placing gayness into the category of whimsical desire for something unconventional as opposed to a state of being who you are. going up against the supreme court, these guys are going buy some [bleep] slippery slope argument. >> justice antonin scalia was answering questions about his legal writing. >> a student on monday asked why scalia in past writings has compared sodomy laws to laws on beastiality and murder. >> jon: scalia! good old slippery sodomy slope scalia. ruff laugh aka antonin, aka lips manlis from the dick tracy movie. totally a pairing, you see on one of those web sites where the people look like other people. and then you click on it. (laughter) anyway, another standard bull [bleep] slippery slope argument. don't worry i'm sure antonin scalia has a much more-- of explaining it. >> it is a form of argument which is called a reduction to the absurd. >> if we can to the have moral feelings against or objections to homosexuality, can we have it against anything? >> i'm surprised you weren't persuaded. >> jon: yeah. i am surprised you aren't persuaded, gay student

they have a huge mass of unconventional weapons. it is happening right on our borders. we are taking action on a daily basis to reduce the immediate threat and increase our ability to win future wars when the app and. -- when they happen. >> the rising tension has prompted many israelis to equip themselves with gas masks just in case. if the regime's grip is slipping, the fear is that anything could happen. bbc news, beirut. >> let's join our correspondent in jerusalem. as we heard in that report, there is still plenty of argument about exactly what the target was inside syria. >> in deed. don't expect any confirmation or denial of what happened, as is israel's habit or policy never to comment. of course, the intelligence from lebanon, from the united states suggest there was an israeli airstrike. most of the perceived wisdom is that it was on an arms convoy, perhaps that was leaving syria bound for lebanon, perhaps of antiaircraft missiles that would have gone into has by law's -- into hezbollah's hands. align that this was a military recess facility that was hit -- th

a lot of the media called that unconventional. [laughter] let's repeal child labor laws that we fought hard for in this country. bring in dickens to chronicle it. i do think there is the cruelty amidst the reality show debates we have been subjected to. who is running this, entertainment or news? there is a cruelty when people cheer that someone dies without health care or bbo a soldier that dies in iraq. >> i am joking about herman cain. he is a guy who cannot hide the truth well. that makes me more comfortable with the idea that i know who he is about so i can make a decision. >> are you talking about the women coming forward or the fact that he said he did not know what he would do about afghanistan when he became president and would check it out? [laughter] >> we have had presidents who have been reelected like that. we talked about transparency in the value to our society. -- and the value to our society. chris matthews was here peddling his latest jfk book. he is a huge fan. was jfk under estimated? that is the debate going

the next one, a little unconventional way.he guy take as weed whacker to the snowman, doing a number on the old carrot nose. also got a snowman's worst enemy. hot water. melts the face of frosty there. >> it's like throwing acid on a human. >> ah! >> a couple in a row that are just flat out explosions. ♪ >> this one, snowblower. that looks like a snowman child. >> look. you can even see frosty's eyes and nose going through the snowblower. here we go winter sports-style snowboard smash right to the snowman's face. >> ah. >> this one, the old-fashioned way. i've got to say, my favorite, just a flat out football full-speed tackle. then last, but not least, the sled bomb just takes the sled right into the snowman. due to this tweet you'll notice ashton kutcher himself tweeted this video out. why? because ashton kutcher's production company, catalyst, they're behind thrash lab. ashton was actually the executive producer of this. which is your favorite to destroy a snowman or do you have a better way? let us know on our website, rig

or many other countries are gall of these people are victims they are there being ravaged by unconventional warfare. >> if we turn away from the needs of others, we align ourselves with those forces which are bringing about suffering. >> my half of the bully pulpit and you ought to take advantage of the. >> obesity in this country is nothing short of a public health crisis. >> we have little antennas that went up and told me when somebody had their own agenda. >> so much influence. it's just a shame. >> i think they serve as a window on the past to what was going on with american women. >> she becomes achieved hopped on. she is really the only one in the world they can trust. >> many of the women who were first ladies, they were writers. lot of them are writers, journalists and they wrote books. >> they are in many quick cases quite frank they more interesting as human beings and their husbands if only because they are not first and foremost consequently limited by political influence. >> dolly was socially adept and politically savvy. >> dolley madison loved every minute of it. mrs. monroe

it's by the toronto wildlife center, and they are rescuing a loon, but doing it in an unconventional way. this person on their stomach got a rope and they just lassoed it around the loon, in a net, and pulled it out. ♪ >> can you explain to me why water fowl needs to be rescued from a pond jthts sometimes they get wet and frozen if the weather's cold enough. it doesn't look exactly warm. obviously something was wrong it needed rescued with a rope and a net. >> crazy day for that loon. >> i know. >> i just don't -- >> rescuing wildlife from the wild. when there's nothing seemingly wrong with the animal baffles me i. want to hear the 911 tapes on that one. yeah, there's a duck stuck in the pond. >>> the internet has long been a place for people to vent their frustrations. we've enjoyed watching a lot of these people. viral hits like the cat lady. this politician, freaking out on camera. >> i love that guy. >> yeah. that was a good one. and you may recognize one of the guys freaking out to "rtm." did you notice francis smashing the guitar against a, a nintendo it looked like? >> i love

. >> reporter: and some training the unconventional way. >> i love playing play station and xbox.t it that way. >> reporter: graduating top gun in california, harry is now an apache helicopter co-pilot, a gunner. >> when you fly, the whole floor vibrates. when you fire a missile, the whole aircraft shutters a little bit. >> reporter: he is the man with his finger on the trigger. he's not afraid to use it. >> take a life to save a life. that's what we revolve around, i suppose. if there's people trying to do bad stuff to our guys, we'll take the game, i suppose. >> reporter: while he was out there, he marked a few major milestones, his 28th birthday, marred by a taliban attack on his base. the high-profile prince suddenly became a high-level target. >> obviously the papers are like oh, this is all against me. no one really knows that. guys dealt with it really well. it was on my birthday, so it was a bit of a reality check. >> reporter: and becoming an uncle. >> i spoke to my brother and her, and both very well and both very happy. >> reporter: harry makes no secret that this is wh

that i could not do something, but i also did not have a target, so i traversed my life in this unconventional way, just pursuing whenever i had a passion for, whenever i felt could contribute to society or the technology that would be tomorrow. i pursued that. and that is what i climbed this mountain range. at every peak, the view is different, but for you to arrive at a different peak, sometimes you have to go down before you go up. sometimes we do not want to take a downside, we just want to keep going up. there is nothing wrong with that. tavis: it is anti-american to step down. that is our problem. but you are right. you cannot go to that next peak with of the ebb and flow. >> it is very interesting, because when i started geomagic, i wanted to combine internet technology. i was working with the internet. the idea was to change the manufacturing to mass personalization. you can see my shoes. this is 3-d printing. this is the technology of tomorrow. tavis could get that shoe -- tavis: get that shoe. >> bid is at a museum of art. lightweight. biodegradable. but my passion is about how can w

it is through unconventional gas and oil. hong the governor would have the biggest oil producers of a saudi arabia in rusher. -- and russia. what are the implications of this d.c. energy dependence by the united misstates in the very near future? whether it is a right thing to do or whether they choose to move to self sufficiency is completely different. one of the things i would like to pretend that is in 2012 the u.s. would actually develop a u.s. policy. some of this will develop this natural gas so and these unconventional things. >> a year relaxed about this whole a certain sum of the industry happening so fast. in the other part of the world there is the misgiving about this. >> relax is not the word i would have chosen. chris has become an extraordinarily contentious issue. one of the reasons it has been contentious is because they're in packs. too often up until now many companies have tonight there are any impacts. the communities see their water contaminated not necessarily buy tractors but by spills on the surface.

these days john mcafee is more known for making headlines about a murder in belize and his very unconventional lifestyle. raj mathai traveled to portland. and true to his character, mcafee doesn't hold back. >> is your story, you pick which way we should lean on this. the story of a one-man implosion or the story of the rebirth of john mcafee? >> well, you know, you have to decide that yourself. >> i might. but i'm asking you. >> you know, i don't feel like someone who has imploded. you know, i feel like someone who's been through a lot, and much of what i've been through, you know, is actually not much worse than my first marriage. so you know, it's not like something tragic happened to me. some drama happened to me. i took care of myself. i escaped. i am here. >> not some drama. this is a lot of drama. >> for you a lot of drama. >> against you, a drug culture, hoaxes, teenaged girlfriend, a lot of drama. millions of dollars. that's not just some drama. >> hear what else mcafee tells raj about his early days in silicon valley. how money changed him, those teenaged girlfriends and what mcafee

nobody knows how we're possibly some of this problem into the thirteen and my my major concern unconventional side is that someone's going to get trigger happy someone's going to get a plane shot down or a boat shot down and then and then we're off to the races i don't i don't see it as played in beyond that next year but long term nobody's clear how this is going to be solved on the currency side japan is absolutely in it death row is on their economy they're spending twice what they take in receipts as you mentioned l.d.p. has just come back into power now they're now their plans of fix the economy after thirty years of keynesian failed policies is going to print more money and they want to pass a new budget despite our spending twice what they take in they want to spend more money they want to print more money it's going to drive that they will get the currency lower like they want it's not going to help the export of japanese corbett's a just got a weaker than we are over the decades and you know our compete they've been losing money at televisions for ten year apple has replace sony kore

twenty or thirty countries with our hearings ngs that have or have the capability of those things unconventional lessons and kerry was essentially taking a real conservative line that hey we have a right you know are we in dayton yes i'd like to talk about more recent regime change if i may obama recently in fact held egypt in libya as a success stories of u.s. foreign policy thanking hillary clinton for her help in regime change there well kerry be a team player on for the regime change do you think. well. and that was interesting actually because you know i think could not support the pro-democracy movement against. mubarak mubarak was a longtime friend of clinton's actually among the people in the streets and well the debate was going on two years ago it was a moment he was really pushing to either stick with mubarak or maybe pass it on to generals threw them on some of the course or in he was out of the supposed to mubarak and u.s. intelligence agencies here is actually taking some more critical roles of the united states said to me this is also in that sense you know you need to be more mod

poignant thirty countries will start hearing resumes that are however i would think ability building unconventional weapons and kerry was essentially taking real conservative lie that hey we have a right you know that a little bit and he is putting aside the moral and legal arguments or rather it was your sash years ago and now in libya we're seeing all those consequences in terms of two hundred thousand men under arms. and these militias are controlled by the government you see the faults threat from mali to algeria elsewhere is a sales part of shortsightedness that we we've seen some of the other politicians most of them. on a website are right now while people vented their anger at government the greece's finance minister is painting a bright future for the country but the source of his optimism as i teach doc. i write my landmark is about to get a faceless luxury fashion brand is ready to clog millions more its restoration go online for all the details. britain which was once proud of having some of the most effective legislation in the world to fend of homelessness now has eva fifty thousand p

unconventional weapons and kerry was essentially they can reopen certain lines that hey we have a right you know adelaide and he is putting aside the moral and legal arguments no iraq was your sastra we're now in libya we're seeing all those consequences in terms of two hundred thousand men under arms. and these militias are controlled by the government you see the fault spread to mali to algeria elsewhere as a single part of short sightedness that we we've seen some of the other politicians in washington. next off to shove break maxence a seat expose adult secrets in the world of play the finance. the fiasco by singing a song highly critical of president obama ironically at a concert in honor of his second inauguration ok. going to the huffington post who was thrown off stage by security for insulting the dear leader this sounds really bad like something out of one nine hundred eighty four were thugs come out of nowhere the second you say something out of line about the party blog to the song loop it was singing had been going on for thirty minutes at that point this rant was more like

going to thirty countries really start hearing resumes that are having the privilege of building unconventional weapons and kerry was essentially taking real concerted lie that hey we have a right you know adelaide and he is putting aside the moral and legal arguments no iraq was your centuries ago and now in libya we're seeing all those consequences in terms of two hundred thousand men under arms. and these militias are controlled by the government you see the fault of somalia to algeria elsewhere as a sales target shortsightedness that we we've seen so many other politicians marching to. on our website all right now while people van today i got many cuts of greece's finance ministers has painted a bright future for the country i know that the source of his optimism and r t. a rise in landmark is about to get a facelift is a luxury fashion brand is ready to pull one millions its restoration going lightly the. rich in which was once proud of having some of the maize effective legislation in the world to fend of homelessness now has a fifty thousand people sleeping rough and with the government

. >> yes they're using un unconventional evidence like hacking to bring for a the evidence.s to bring justice to the girl who was raped. protesters gathered outside of jefferson county courthouse. now city officials are trying to fight back with a website known as steubenville facts where they're trying to stand up for the football players. let's listen to one city official make her case. >> from the attorney general's office are not from the city of steubenville. nor are they from jefferson county. the bureau of criminal investigation agents are not from the city of steubenville. and just to let you know, many outsiders think that big red football runs the town. just as some facts many of the steubenville city officers graduated from somewhere else. >> that is quite possibly the dumbest argument that i've ever heard in my life. just because you didn't go to high school in steubenville does not mean that you have bias. really the reality is it's a small town that has one thing going for it, and it's the football team. and it experiences steep economic decline and it is their

. >> this is a very unconventional way to hold one's nose. this is my nose and an inch and a half of my tongue. >> does it bother you that it's sitting in your freezer? >> i would rather have it sitting on my face. it looks better on my face than it does in this baggy. >>> coming up, paul komyatti goes back to prison, but this time to visit his mother. but first -- >> the scrap iron yard. >> the incredible saga of twin brothers from colorado. >> i was in icu for like nine days. >>> we met them at two different colorado prisons nine years apart. roy and ray slagle, twin brothers with seemingly boundless energy were two of the most memorable inmates ever to appear on "lockup." our first slagle encounter was in 2000 when we met roy at colorado state penitentiary, and he made a big impression. at the time, roy was serving a 12-year sentence for robbery and had a notorious reputation for forcing the prison to perform cell extractions on him because of his frequent refusals to obey orders. nine years later, during our shoot at the lyman correctiona

. >> the women also had a few unconventional routines they developed inside their tent, including somethingkin to driving an 18-wheeler. >> this is ridiculous. >> i saw the ladies in the tent actually doing a lot of exercise, ployometrics and calisthenics, with not much equipment, kind of making do with what they got. but at one point i think maybe they were perhaps putting me on because they showed me this workout where they were pretending to drive a big truck. i couldn't see how that was going to help them stay in shape during their time on the inside. >> while many women gain weight from the predominantly starchy food served in jail, dee dee moore, who we met at the hillsboro county jail in tampa, florida, proved to be an exception. >> i know when you first came in you were weighing about 210 pounds. >> uh-huh. >> what are you down to now? what? >> oh, i'm down to under 150. >> really? >> when i came in, i weighed 250. when i first -- >> 250? >> yeah. i've lost 100 pounds since i've been here. >> moore, who was awaiting trial in a high-profile murder case to which she had pled not guilt

comparing for the full range of threats from the unconventional to the conventional. including things like cyber security. within our military, a continuing to ensure our men and women can serve the country they love no matter who they love. to help meet the challenges of our times, i am proud to announce my choice for the two key members of national security. chuck hagel for secretary of defense, john brennan is director of the cia. chuck hagel is a leader our troops deserve. he is an american patriot. he served with honor alongside his own brother. when he was hit by shrapnel his brother saved him. when his brother was injured by a mine, he risked his life to to pull him to safety. he bears the scars from battles but in our name. this would be historic. he would be the first person up enlisted rank to serve the secretary of defense. one of the few secretaries to have been wounded in war. the first vietnam veteran to leave the department. chuck hagel will our troops the character and strength. they see one of their own. he is a champion and our troops and military fa

all these people ravaged by unconventional warfare. that's on top of the nearly $10 billion for him after his fastest month. the senate may also consider a continuation of violence against women act expired in 2011. live coverage in the senate returned here on c-span 2. >> today i'm pleased to speaker boehner and house colleagues have decided to change course and pass a bill to yet another fight over the debt ceiling. the most important aspect of this legislation is though boat and the house today that it surrenders the hostage republicans took in a decoupled for the full faith and credit of the united states because social security and medicare or anything else. this is a clean debt limit increase. we'll set the precedent for future debt ceiling extensions will have to have. by passing this bill, republican joint democrat to say we will not hold the full faith and credit of the united states hostage. we will pay the bills we have incurred. over the last two years, the bipartisan budget control act has been in love is in place of the c

and their investment in renewable and unconventionals is at this point. [inaudible] with one big exception in the nuclear power. they consider that to be a virtuous renewable. as for solar, well, the agency in charge of solar-power development is coordinated to the nuclear power agency which is tells you something. and so on. this is a story that has not yet begun. it's something that the russians are going have to become more conscious of. if only for one very direct reason entire northern third of russia is perm frost and it's melting. it's bubbling methane all over the world. and the consequences of a massive melting of perm ma frost is particularly serious in russia the economic disruption. never mind the environmental consequences. so we're talking about big downsize to this guilty love . >> one last question. >> thank you very much. to what extent is was he part of the corruption problem in russia, and could you say something about the actual and potential impact with russia's on -- obsession to the world trade organization and getting what it cause

yes, it was a bit unconventional, but that was his right.n base. i didn't hear a lot about the crowd reaction but he's always been politically vocal through his music. this is just where he is at as an artist. i don't think we should say it's a faux pas on the part of the planning committee. >> cenk: i think he was doing a stephen colbert when he he said, here take this, and throwing a proverbial pie in their face. and lupe is political. >> he had a huge stage. he's headlineer for the show. lupe fiasco knew what he was doing but we stand by his right to do it. >> cenk: by the way one of the people there tweeted out the corporate sponsors are not happy. i guess that is a sad day. it made me go to lupe's site and say, go get 'em. if you saw it, beyonce comes out and does the "stars spangled banner" and knocks it out of the park, but now they're saying she was trying to steal the spotlight. >> she gets her beyonce on. when she comes out to the crowd she's like that, but i love that about her. that's who she is in this administration. >> that's

she's unconventional. another outfit to wear, a dressier black dress.love it. it's great. >> let's bring eileen a big round of applause for both of our ladies. all right. from music to movies, celebs, all the hollywood news coming up with jason kennedy. right after this. ♪ ect on you, catherine! have we met? yeah, last week at the tax store i did your taxes. you work here too. yep. i thought you were an expert with returns? oh i am, especially after the holidays! major tax stores advertise for preparers with "no taxes experience necessary." at turbotax, you only get answers from cpas, eas or tax attorneys - all real tax experts. ...than h&r block stores and all other major tax stores combined. those spots are actually leftover food and detergent residue that can redeposit on your dishware during the rinse cycle. gross. jet-dry rinse agent helps wash them away so the only thing left behind is the shine. jet-dry rinses away residues for a sparkling shine. i played a round of golf.id in the last five hours? then i read a book while teaching myself how to p

it has the 3 d been unconventional policies recently come in particular, the very massive asset purchasesn you tell us if it is working? >> to go back one step, as you said, we brought the short-term interest rate back to zero. for many years, monetary policy involves moving the overnight interest rate up and down. then we get a situation in 2008 where we had brought the short- term rate down about as far as it could go, almost entirely to zero. so the question is what more can the fed do? a decade ago, there were a lot of articles about how the fed would be out of ammunition if it got a short-term rate down to 0%. but a lot of work by academics and researchers that central banks suggested that there was more that could be done once you get the short-term rate down to zero. in particular, what you can do is try to redress the longer- term rates, bring them down. there are two basic ways to do that. one day is through talk, communication. sometimes known as open mouth operations. [laughter] the idea that come if you tell the public view will keep rates low in the long term, it will have th