did she tell you they were uncoverable? >> she did not. >> that's a problem. why not tell us april 4th when this committee was briefed. the briefing was about how we would deal with how the irs was going to deal with committee requests for concerns about the lost or april 4th. miss duval could have told the committee at that time? >> i've testified at some length in the past that our -- earlier today -- >> sheert key question. why not in mid april when you knew let's puts up the slide. this is a question we had earlier in one of our hearings. why not when you knew -- what date did you learn you could not get all of her e-mail? i learned that in april. why not april? >> as i testified then and i've testified on numerous occasions, my judgment was, a, we needed to find out what e-mails we did have. we needed to put together it in a full report, which we did. >> why not any time in april? someone at the irs told someone at treasury who told someone at the white house, according to press reports. if it was good enough to pass on to the treasury and white house, wh

>> i did not know they were missing and uncoverable and a laptop crash had caused that. >> when you did learn, what was the date that the white house counsel's office learned? >> mr. koskinen told us he felt he had no duty to disclose. he knew in march there were lost e-mails. he didn't tell us at the end of march. someone at the white house learned in april. we didn't learn till june when they sent us a letter a week and a half ago. when did the white house counsel's office learn that there were lost e-mails? >> so i just got there. >> i understand. >> i'm asking when the counsel. how -- there's only like 25 lawyers. >> i wasn't there in april. i have seen the same letter you've seen. it describes -- >> do you know the date? >> i don't. >> is it fair to say april? that's what your boss said. he said it was sometime in april when they learned from the treasury. is that accurate? >> i have no reason to doubt that it's true, i just wasn't there. >> do you know who from treasury told the white house counsel's office that e-mails were lost? do you know who that person was? >> i don't know.