stand-alone nonprofit business-led, for any of you in nonprofit, if you just go by, gosh, we got in underbudget, no, that doesn't work. that doesn't work. you have to challenge yourself every day to say, is this the most efficient program i can run? can i get the outcomes for less money, less time? can my people do more quality things than time-intensive activity? that is that reinventing the bottom line. it applies to workforce more than it ever has in a declining budget year -- several declining budget years. ends not processed, again a governance conversation with our birthdays. they did adopt the governance model that says let's talk about what you're doing and don't tell me how you're doing it. i don't want to spend my time in your board room talking about the churn. i want to know what your outcomes are going to be. and i think that's true for all business people. as we present our story and say workforce development can work for you, we really don't want to hear about the silos. they don't want to hear about cross-training professionals. what they want to hear about is what you're going