we're looking at technology, whether it can be underground. we're looking at the size of the facility that would need to be in order for it to be underground. the applicant would inform us of any new technologies. they have to provide us with that information. they are the providers in that specific type of technology. they would know what is new and what is available. >> the box turns into a much more massive underground facility. how you judge whether that is feasible or not? is it just to the cost to build that out? presumably, you can find the space for that. i'm wondering how the question comes into play. >> all of these boxes are currently known as the furniture zone. >> at the very best, the edge of the box would get move toward the property line. the size of the box given the facility from at&t, is approximately 49 15 feet that would be eliminating the possible planting areas. there is a lot of other potential technical issues to look at. is this in front of a commercial business. ? do they have an accessibility entryway that would be

to have a flush undergrounding. they also state that private property is not workable because as a phone company they need 24/7 access and quick access if there's a problem with the phone line. so again if we assume that that is true. and then finally, if we assume that no other carrier would have the resources to be able to enter the market and do this kind of project, in other words, if we had certainty that this would be the end in terms of the major box projects in the city, so if all those things were true, and i understand that you may dispute some or all of them, would an e.i.r. still be required? >> yes. and i appreciate the question and i will accept it's true, the three facts that are we actually don't believe are true. just for purposes of the question. what that does is put you to the end of the decision making process without the benefit of environmental review. the cases are clear that you don't -- the fact that an e.i.r. may or may not be helpful or may or may not produce new information is irrelevant

we evaluated the underground of the box ha. remove all of the vegetations that would provide a situation where it is more unsightly and by exposing the existing cabinet. that would not be inappropriate location at this case. >> the results might be different? hong >> correct. >> it is not globally unfeasible to do it? >> as technology changes, we're supposed to go back to all previous year's applicants. they evaluate changes to they evaluate changes to technology.

what gives me concern is that at&t, every time we mention underground, pull out a picture of an underground facility that requires more hardware than the box itself. it is like a bunker or an underground living room. this information is published in 2008. we as citizens to leave things have to have advanced. -- believe things have to have advanced. president chiu: in the defense by at&t of why the categorical exception is permissive here, they defend the fact that at&t believes that it is not technologically practical to underground the cabinets. they raised this themselves as an issue. supervisor elsbernd: thank you, david. the question for the city attorney. just to clarify what we just had. i believe what you are getting at is the notion that the expert testimony we have just received to get at the cumulative impact -- just to be clear, the application here, do we not need "expert testimony" to establish that, or is anecdotal evidence sufficient to establish cumulative impact? >> i am from the city attorney's office. the ceqa law kind of bounces around, depending on what the particular p

they say do it underground. you can't mine that coal underground. so they give you easy answers and they walk away. >>at the end of a long hard winter season, the world's top skiers converge on the swiss resort of verbier for one of the most exciting pro-am ski tournaments in the mountains. where the likes of the legendary alberto tomba and current downhill world champion didier cuche, joined forces with 350 amateur racers. >>reporter: the verbier high-five, possibly the wildest pro-am ski race in the world. >>reporter: every april for the last 12 winters the swiss resort of verbier has hosted the high-five, the now traditional curtain closer to the racing season, where past and present ski champions pitch up to race against everyday skiers, it's the pros versus the joes: >>alphand: normal skiers, you know, they look races on tv. they can see racers, they know their names and everything but they cannot really compete with them because it's not the same races. and so finally if they sign in here they get a helmet, a bib and they can race against the

officials want to bury the station's underground. local officials want a cheaper option. >> the virginia governor says the state will not foot the bill underground metro at dulles airport. some say taxpayers will bear the difference when in opinion, there is no benefit to an underground station. i would say the cheapest is the way to go. >> in a letter to the airport mcdonald says he is disappointed in decision and hopes the board come to a more fiscally sound decision. she agrees and says the train be above ground. as it gets people to airport, we cannot complain. it is fine. >> others think virginia is taking the easy way out. they're going to spend all money and wind up half a mile away from the terminal. how appealing that folks. to some >> there is concern that an underground option would be more , especially for taxpayers in surrounding counties and drivers who use the tollway. >> i do not want to see the told going up again. peoplet goes out to the virginia. we reached out to the board he had too see what about the governor's

there are ways to put the fiber underground that does not require cabinets. we can do micro trenching. you do not need a trench as wide as a bucket. you can dig a 1 inch wide trench and drop fiber in the trench. it is fast. it can be done in a day. you can do 400 meters and have a closed. it is affordable. we need to set up a network that maybe the city owns and other businesses like mine can provide the internet leg and the property owners can pay for the trunk from the network in the street from their house and be given tax relief in exchange. it would be less than a thousand dollars. it costs about $700 for you to put your power -- when pg&e goes underground, it costs about $700 for the material. president chiu: thank you very much. next speaker. >> my name is dana smithco. i am making a statement on behalf of sf fiber. we are advocating for better broadband auctions in san francisco. i applaud at&t's efforts to bring faster high-speed internet. we are not sure this is the best way to go over the long term. as the previous speaker was saying, the u.s. has

you have underground pipes, you have underground valves. they get what they call tuberculin built up. you would compare it to a 100-year-old man that has heavy cholesterol. they could be 6- or 8-inch mains, but being 100 years old, they actually may be 2-inch mains. and they reduce the amount of volume of water that's available to us. johnson: there were a number of things that we have had to do in order to get the system back up to an acceptable standard. replacing mains and valves and fire hydrants and other components of the system to ensure that it operates properly. egan: we consider both the underground infrastructure and the above ground assets to be a part of the critical infrastructure of the city. johnson: and if the infrastructure is not there to actually deliver that water in the volume and the quality that's necessary, then communities simply can't exist. man: infrastructure is vital to the american economy. water, after all, is an essential ingredient in hundreds of thousands of everyday products. narrator: agriculture and ind

room now becomes larger because we are putting people underground. more importantly, it needs to be sealed. moisture does affect this equipment. if anyone drops a can of soda on their keyboard of their computer, you know what happens when moisture gets inside a piece of computer equipment. those are the issues that necessitates putting it in a controlled vault and the representative spoke about what it does to placing it underground. i want to talk about the d.p.w. process we go through. it is not a ceqa process but something we live with every day. in 2005, the department of public works initiated the order and it's the bible we live by when we operate in your right-of-way. san francisco has adopted one of the most aggressive regulations than anywhere in the nation. we operate in thousands if not tens of thousands of jurisdictions in the country. that surface mounted facility order is just that. i should point out the appellants were important in developing that order that we live by but something after the lengthy process and the people were apart

one about undergrounding. there have been questions about whether we can underground and what the technological feasibility of doing so is and some of the technologies you have heard about today. our equipment is sensitive computer equipment. if you have ever been in a computer server room of an office or i.t. environment, this equipment gets hot very quickly and when you bury it underground, that exascerbates that issue. if we need to underground this, it needs to be placed in a controlled environmental vault and that vault needs to be dry. that vault needs to be air conditioned and cooled and because this equipment requires access by our technicians, it needs to be safe. and we have to meet os hmp a standards t

we had neighbors, people from the underground industry. i was not able to stay for the whole meeting but i thought was a great discussion and it opened up a lot of dialogue. these parties don't usually talk. i know myself and i know for inspector --, i was able to have a conversation with people who generally when we have talked to them are like, seeing 3 in the morning and we're shooting something down. -- it is 3 in the morning and we are shutting something down. we're slowly working getting the karaoke places in. we have been able to get another two or three complaints in the last month. we are working through them. slowly but surely we are getting to them. you will see the areas of patrols, we will see what we're looking at right now. we are getting some complaints on the saturday and sunday brunches. first there has not been anything recently but is still seems to be a volatile space. these are and permitted spaces. there has been a recurring events at both locations. the good news is that we have talked to the building manager and th

, not underground. to me, it somewhat resembles the problem san francisco has had from time to time with caltrans, whose objective is to move as much traffic as fast as possible, sometimes regardless of the impact of the municipalities they go through. san francisco has, in recent years, a good record with caltrans. they have worked with the city to lessen the impact. hopefully, high-speed rail, they will be able to do so also. the friends of city planning, there was also last night. if i am not mistaken, the website, the ability to search the web site came from some of their grants. >> commissioner antonini? >> i read i was not able to attend the housing collection action forum. i understand it was very good. i was able to briefly attend the friends of city planning. as always, it is a nice event. other meetings in the last week -- i met with representatives, who i believe -- the project have been continued for a few weeks now. also meetings between representatives for the academy of art university, pr

supervisor elsbernd: to bring up the undergrounding again, and digging up people's property, let's say planning said to you, "you cannot go forward with this," or dpw said, "you cannot go forward with this unless you keep this all out of the right of way," or "you cannot go forward unless you do not something else." leewood at&t proceed with the project? i ask this because for myself, and i assume for colleagues, it is a lot easier to decide that we either have the technology and clutter the sidewalks, or we don't have the technology, and there is an open question about what is feasible, and i heard what you said before, but if that were put to you by one of the departments, how would you respond? >> i think he would be forcing the company to make a decision about whether or not it would build out the entire city of san francisco. the public works person stated, if you're talking about digging 15 by 15, it is not going to work in most of the cities, and it is going to end up with an above-ground piece of furniture that is in many instances larger than the actual vrad, so there could be

we are going to call it underground entertainment. 6:00, 1426 st.. and that's it. >> thank you. >> and the others? >> al qaedai look forward to lok discussing limited performance on may 24th. the official it includes today's meeting of the san francisco and

you live from moscow and still have for you in the program but many times and see the ruins of an underground nazi come on something in ukraine or at the center of the storm some want to be a world war two memorial others fear it could become a shrine for skinheads. from rehearsal to reality a russian rocket is being prepared for liftoff from a european space port after a successful simulation. has value take revenge on the u.s. for the death of osama bin laden statements attributed to the terrorist group that appeared on several online she hardest forums but also suggest that a successor is being chosen to take over as leader blogger danielle belton says america made a mistake in not putting the terrorist leader on trial the reality is that american politics is just very ugly right now and things that normally wouldn't be politicized have been politicized something that's natural saying hey we have a person who's committed crimes against us let's use the american justice system to bring them to justice has now become a political issue it's now become debatable whether or not our system shoul

your activities and actions were very radical about this group the weather underground. did some things that were you know later deemed terrorist and you say this entire time that you were really fighting for peace we've become used really since nine eleven as an example of american terrorism but we were never terrorists in fact i think the whole. the war and black freedom movement in the united states were militant had militant edges but really were always restrained and if you look around the world at the time we in fact were tactically very restrained our rhetoric was sometimes a little inflamed and hyperbolic but our our actions really were quite restrained. in that revolution and insurgency takes is constantly changing we just saw the mideast uprisings who could have imagined that before it happened when those events broke out a lot of people in the united states worst. sort of fearful that the same could happen here on that kind of scale do you think that's possible of course it's possible you know we grown up in an era of american exceptionalism right the last sev

we are going to call it underground entertainment. 6:00, 1426

and the -- the weather underground and the black panthers and also people like the reverend martin luther king jr. so one of the things that sort of comes out of this is this new set of guidelines of how to conduct surveillance on domestic groups. now, what's interesting is that the man who is in charge of setting that up at the department of justice is someone named alan cornbloom who ends up in the summer of 2001 still the person enforcing the rules that keep the fbi, the fbi agents in new york who are working al-qaeda from being told by the cia that there are al-qaeda operatives working within the united states. these two men, of course, end up being two of the 9/11 hijackers. but that this tension over how you create an environment where the fbi is not wrongly persecuting innocent americans who have not done things wrong ends up creating exactly the environment in the 1990s that leads the fbi, i think, to underprosecute and underpursue terrorism. >> host: massachusetts is up next. your question. sorry, let me -- i've got the wrong order. montana caller, you are on the air. >> caller:

archie is in chicago sitting down with longtime activist former leader of the weather underground radical group that operated back in the sixty's and seventy's and now a clinical law professor at northwestern university and director of the children and family justice center bernardine dohrn thank you so much for joining us tonight pleasure now you obviously have an extremely diverse biography hated by some romanticized by others from being on the f.b.i.'s top ten most wanted list to now being a law professor and dealing with children's rights which one of these stages serves your purpose is the most i don't think of them is that this thing i feel like i've been obsessed with a couple of things my whole life and certainly the question of justice and certainly peace war and peace you obviously throughout your career have received so much criticism about your butt timothy's and actions were very radical about this group the weather underground. some things that were you know later do you terrorist and you say this entire time that you were really fighting for peace we've become used to reall

we are going to take you underground. yes, you can go underground here in this neck of the area. >> interesting. i'm jealous of all the coffee you have out there. thank you very much. you don't have the stories of hillary clinton that i'm going to tell you. secretary of state hillary clinton is in pakistan this morning. it's a you are prize visit into easing tensions in pakistan. the pakistani government is upset about the raid on osama bin laden's compound. half the number of military trainers in the country. the president signed a four-year extension of the patriot act. it was signed just before midnight. the investigators will be allowed to use terror fighting tools for another four years. los angeles is proceeding cautionly in the giants fan beating case. they plan to present their case very soon. he's accused of beating bryan stow who is in the hospital in a coma. there's a $200,000 reward leading to the arrest of the second attacker. >>> i want to get a look at the forecast. a lot of folks have an extended weekend.

still to come in the program bunker mentality the ruins of an underground nazi command center in ukraine are at the middle of a storm some wanted to be a world war two memorial but others here could become a skinhead right. and from a personal to reality a russian rocket prepped for liftoff from a european space port operator successful simulated watch is coming your way short we stay with us here on r.g.p. . wealthy british style. is no time to write my book. markets. find out what's really happening to the global economy with mike stronger no holds barred look at the global financial headlines comes a report. has vowed revenge on the u.s. for osama bin laden's death statements attributed to the terrorist group have appeared on several jihadi websites they also suggest a successor is being chosen to take over as leader blogger danielle belton says the u.s. made a state in not putting the terrorist leader on trial. the reality is that american politics is just very ugly right now and things that normally wouldn't be politicized have been politicized something that's natural saying hey we

we are going to call it underground entertainment. 6:00, 1426 st.. and that's it. >> thank you. >> and the others? >> al qaedai look forward to lok discussing limited performance on may 24th. the official it includes today's meeting of the san francisco and mayor lee: good morning, everyone. good morning, san francisco. it is great to see you here this morning. i would ask before we get started today, if you would join me in a moment of silence for the people of japan who have been so tragically impacted by the disastrous earthquake and tsunami there. if we could have a moment of silence please. thank you very much. good morning. welcome to the 2011 bay area council outlook conference. we have an outstanding agenda for you today. we have been doing this for seven years. every one of these has been very exciting. i think the program we put together is an extremely robust and eclectic program. i think we are all going to learn something. it is a place for action as well. the whole history taking place here, and outlook that results in real action out i

narrator: our water infrastructure is made up of complex, underground systems that function continuously. these 10 locations take a look at the history, design, and challenges of our water infrastructure systems. each one represents a small part of what's at stake on a national scale. but understanding the challenges starts with understanding the value of the three basic systems. generations of americans have never experienced living without a constant, unlimited supply of water delivered straight to the tap, or without their waste flushed immediately away. i think people often forget -- because, you know, water utilities have made it very convenient for people to get water -- how important this is. man: in terms of water supply, wastewater, stormwater development -- these are independent technologies. but what came first, most often, was a water supply system. the basic system is essentially the same as we used back in the 19th century. and in some cases, some of the same pipes. grusheski: philadelphia was the first american city to develop a water system and to take on as a municipal r

the theme for the event was underground entertainment. the good, the bad and the ugly. the way the meeting turned out, we sort of took that in reverse order and started with the incidents and proceeded to the bad ones and ended really on kind of a good note. i think the most important thing that we accomplished from all of this is folks who are involved in underground entertainment came away from it knowing that they have a seat at the table too. so there is a good, healthy dialogue that started. so thank you all very much. >> thank you, commissioner meko. anybody else? any public comment on the executive director's report? seeing known, we'll go to item number four. regarding proposed action for dapting a recommendation concerning this ordinance. i was informed by our executive director that this issue will not be heard by the board until close to the end of the year so i had recommended to her and in agreement with the commission we get a motion to continue it until it takes its final form and we have something specific to discuss closer to the time that it is going t

it had been underground for about 40 years. to work on getting that pipe back online. but in the meantime there is water. it might be brown but the city says time and time again that this water is safe to drink. but that is up to the person who is drinking it because i'm not quite sure how i'd feel about drinking some of that water at least from some of the pictures we just saw over there. >> i'm with you there. i think a pot of coffee in the morning, forget it. head to starbucks. >> yeah. either that or pull out the bottled water. one of the two. >> got some mud in my system here. okay, anne makovec live in napa, thank you. >>> iran has suddenly postponed the espionage trial of two cal grads that was scheduled for today. iran did not give a reason for delaying the trial, but a swiss diplomat tells cbs news it's because shane bauer and josh fattal did not show up for court. they have been in jail in iran since being arrested nearly two years ago. sarah shourd was also arrested but she was released on bail last september and she

at a coal mine in mexico three men were killed underground. the blast happened in a northern state. a quarte, a 14-year-old boy worn the surface lost both of his arms because of the force. now to some football. >> celebrating this morning after defeating rail madrid -- real madrid. there had been animosity between the two sides. it was football that took center stage last night, thankfully. they took the lead when this man, pedro, scored. real fought back. and this was fired in from close range. capped off by their defender. he was diagnosed with cancer in february. now they will need manchester united. >> it has been one of the best seasons of all. [unintelligible] recreating teams and teams and winning and winning and rising in the finals. >> pretty confident. united plays tonight and taking a 2-0 lead from the first. the only thing that stands in the way is a bit of complacency. >> thanks. i will talk to you later. still to come, a crackdown on protesters in syria, branded as barbaric. security forces have arrested thousands. border controls could be temporarily reimposed as a la

the coffin of pope john paul ii was removed from its marble tomb in the underground kript crypt be neat basilica. it's been moved and placed in front of the main altar or it will be shortly so that thousands of people that travel to st. basilica will be able to see it. the remains of 15th century pope innocent will be removed from the chapel to make way for john paul ii. never before has the body of one pope been removed to make way for another. meanwhile, the large tombstone which coughed the late pope's grave for the past six years is to be taken to poland where it will be placed in a new church dedicated to the blessed, as he will be known, john paul ii. we're watching live now the beatification ceremony under way in rome. jim bitterman and john allen are watching along with us. and once again, one is struck by the devotion. you know, dhurch fathers have said, this is not about john paul the pope -- >> i didn't hear the question. would you repeat that? >> church fathers say this isn't about john paul, the pope. this is about the man. what kind of man was he? >> do you want to tackle

they have a magnificent underground process. you never go outside. you don't have to worry about the elements. and you're right on the el, as they call it. again, we're looking at this has to last 75 years. >> we're also looking at a tight budget, tight budgetary times. >> that's the question. the governor says, and the main legislators say, there's just not enough money. and frank wolf, the congressman who, among others, watches over the airport, wants a complete study. he made very clear he doesn't think the idea of an underground station is viable at this point. these are tough budgetary times. if you spend extra money on the underground station, what are you taking away from? >> i still say i would have to agree with joe that it's short-sighted. this is something that is supposed to not just be transportation to the airport, but to spur growth along the dulles-tyson's corner corridor. if you're thinking in terms of that in additional development and turning that edge city into an area where people can live and work, you need to have the transit a

we are going to call it underground entertainment. 6:00, 1426 st.. and that's it. >> thank you. >> and the others? >> al qaedai look forward to lok discussing limited performance on may 24th. the official it includes today's meeting of the san francisco and >> i am so glad to be here and joining everyone here today. she has not gotten used to a real mustache. anyway, i am so glad to be here enjoying all of you on this very important day. i do not know if you knew it, this is important because all of us up here and in particular, carmen and congresswomen spirit -- we are so much in charge with their huge decisions that affect everybody's lives. i have to say that a large part of my work as the mayor is trying to fill this $306 million gap. as you can imagine, we are short in the city by $306 million, and we have had some months to work at it, and then trying to work at it with every supervisor and every financial person in the city and community-based agencies, and it is a very tough job, but we will get through it and try to balance the budget as wel

. >>> checking other bay area headlines, an underground transformer explosion shut down a stretch of the embarcadero near peer 3 this morning, the blast was underground and blew two-man hole covers into the air. no word on what caused the explosion and no one was hurt. >>> parole records of the man beating brian stow did not include his tattoos. the information was absent from the computer database and may help identify 31-year-old ramirez sooner. it was a tip from his parole officer who led to a break in the case. ramirez has not yet been charged but police say they are confident he will be. >>> oakland library supporters are demanding the mayor put a tax on the ballot, he has proposed closing the libraries unless he receives union concessions or tax revenue. they have been blocking the partial tax saying the city needs to look for other funding sources. >>> a controversial memorial for the jonestown massacre has been officially unveiled in oakland and it's a tribute to the 918 people who died including the consult leader, jim jones, who ordered his followers to commit suicide in 19

moving forward, the applicant -- the appellant has stated about the inability to underground this area in the future. as he has suggested, the pole is currently a joint pole. as part of that agreement, if the city decided to underground the district, all over had polls -- overhead poles would need to have an alternate location for these installations. there was a comment related to the e-mail from the bureau chief, where they are pointing specifically to the statement that there is a limited ability to appeal. this e-mail was in response to a hypothetical question and posed by one of the board members. historically what we have found from practice from these wireless companies is, they would apply for 10, 12 permits at one time, wait for all of them to be approved, and install all these facilities at once, usually after the appeal period in these cases. not knowing the location, not knowing that information, the bureau chief provided a generic statement that wireless companies would apply for coming in accident -- in essence, a grid, in order to provide a functional network. the depart

easements to accommodate underground track alignment, and two properties necessary to construct stations. the chinatown station property terms and conditions have been approved of by the owner and the fta. purchase rectification is expected by the end of this month. the agency has also begun relocating existing residences and businesses from the existing building, located on the corner of washington and stockton. three residences have been relocated. the fourth residence is expected to be relocated in mid-may. one business has identified a relocation site and is scheduled to move by the end of june. the moscone station property acquisitions have been unsuccessful. if negotiations do not improve, we will be forced to initiate court action to remain on the project schedule. the central subway financial plan before you is comprised of federal, state, and local funding sources. the program has been successful in working with mtc and the transportation authority to provide funding availability with project needs. this board approved the central subway budget and financial plan, completing ano