i direct the gentleman is 89% underutilization, he lived in% utilization. >> thanks. i am sorry i'm not being clear on that. 84% underutilization which is latin and in english we call it ogle charging while the work camano work is being done. and the response the dcaa has and i would like you to comment while the contractor takes the initiative that is the july 2008 stat our order determine the contract could have been more proactive based on discussions dcma and the command of the contractors lack of transparency and initiative resulted in a missed opportunity for cost savings and there was more discussion of that and that in addition it could, pbr, could have proposed cost-saving initiatives as soon as it became apparent that so much idle time was being charged to the government. this is forward-looking and the contractor now has the opportunity to achieve significant savings by working with the government to right size the clss function. wasn't it within your power in august of 2009 not only to put forth a proposal that matched with the government asked you to but

it is 89% to underutilization, 11% utilization. >> thanks, i am sorry i am not being clear on that. in english we call that idleness, charging while no work is being done. the response that dcaa says is, while the contractor maintains that it took the initiative, that is the july 2008 step youtube, our order determined that the contractor could have been more proactive. based on discussions, the contractors lack of transparency an initiative resulted in missed opportunities for cross savings. then there is some more discussion of that. in addition, it could have proposed cost savings initiatives as soon as it became apparent that so much idle time was being charged to government. this audit is forward-looking, and the contractor now has the opportunity to achieve significant savings by working with the government to right size the clss function. wasn't it within your power in august 2009 not only to do if you put forward the proposal that matched what the government asked you to, but to put forward a proposal for larger savings? and now you have the statement of condition, which you

we went back to the government and said look, it's underutilized. and not only are we concerned about it, but we want to sit down and talk about a better way to utilize this workforce. you know, we get contractual requirement to provide it. we were just as concerned as you are that they weren't -- that we were not using that capability. and as i've said before, i don't know when i don't want to second-guess what the military knew that we didn't about future operations, about capability they wanted to retain and whether or not they specifically excepted the excess or not. >> mr. horn, which you disagree with what mr. laboa has said to us? >> i agree with what mr. laboa has said. the position i was taking was to try to clarify the nature of what's being measured. you can go down that same road if you tried to evaluate firemen. if firemen are not fighting a fire, they're utilization rates will look good. but they have to be there -- >> it's a difficult story. mr. horn, you're almost arguing against her argument. mr. laboa told dod there is a problem he

we went back to the government and said, look, it is underutilized. not only are we concerned about it, but we want to sit down and talk about a better way to utilize this work force. we have a contractual requirement to provide it, and we were just as concerned that you were -- it just as concerned as you work that we were not using that capability. i do not know, and i do not want to second-guess what the military knew that we did not about cheaper operations, about capabilities they wanted to retain and whether or not they specifically excepted the excess or not. >> would you disagree? >> i agree with what he said. the position i was taking was to try to clarify the nature of what is being measured. you can go down that same road if you try to evaluate firemen. if firemen are not fighting a fire, their utilization rates do not look good. but they have to be there. >> you are almost are doing against your own argument. your counterpart told the department of defense and that there was a problem. you're coming back and saying that you needed that uti

what did you find about kbr's charging on underutilized labor in this area? is it proper? >> based on our analysis from january 2009 through july 2009, and i want to add that the contract management agency requested that we look at this. we saw an average utilization of the labor force providing that function of about 10.1% average utilization. and never during that time did it ever exceed 15%. clearly based on those percentages, we thought there were sufficient seas to be had there. our $21 million is really based on looking forward, having the army and kbr work together to address this issue and projecting from may 2010 to the end of the calendar year. if this issue was addressed we could potentially avoid $21 million worth of costs. >> thank you. as i understand from that audit report, after you study the first six months of 2009, to squeeze down what was going on, which -- for which the government is being charged. i understand the goal would be 85% use. instead, kbr is making 10% and 16% use, which translates that they are charging them for a 12- hour day and people a

to make sure that each of you, under your testimony, whether or not you were told about the underutilization, and told about dcaa was doing. were you told? >> i was involved in the jpb deal. i knew about the audit. i knew about the exit brief. i knew about the facts and the data there. >> mr. horn. >> i am aware of the joint% utilization rates. >> i am talking about the november 14th letter, the audit from dcaa, and your response to it. in this audit is pointed out that, on average, across all sites in iraq, the average utilization rate was less than 11%. are you saying that you had never heard of that before today? >> i am aware of the issue, and i have seen the preliminary information on it. i have not had a chance to see the final report that came out on a friday. >> have you seen in the november 14th audit, of which is the audit in which this issue of 10% utilization from january 2009 to july 2009, of less than 11%, have you seen that audit? >> yes. >> have you seen it? >> i have not seen in the final. i saw the preliminary. >> i was actually going to try to help you out a little bit, be

the operations order shows underutilization where in just that limited function, under 10%, there would be $21 million in savings. the waterfall we talked about and kbr's proposed and state, you said it was about 189,000 people which is an incredibly high figure of the 3 3/5 contractors for every one soldier. taking all that you have seen, not individually, but looking generally, do you stand by your october order? >> yes, commissioner. when we made the report, we did not have the plan to evaluate. we did make some assumptions based on deriving that number of. i would say the logistics support contracts and adds credibility faulk were they to be had -- adds credibility, were there to be had. the end state that the contractor is working to is within a couple hundred that is within our october report. >> i have a quick question. we already discussed business case analysis. i want to know and some commissioners and a staff team, could they review the analysis at the fort? >> sir, i will confirm -- the quick answer is yes. i will confirm there is no problems and i will give back to you. >>

want to make sure from each of you under your testimony whether or not you were told about the underutilization, both at the one maintenance facility and told about a what the dcaa was doing. >> i know jbb. i was involved in the jbb dod ig audit. i knew about the audit, he knew about the exit priest, i knew about the fax. i knew about the data they are. >> mr. horn. >> yes, i'm aware of the joint balad percentage utilization rates. >> were talking about different things. i'm talking about what i just said, this november 14 letter, the audit from dcaa to kbr and your november 20 response to attendance in this november 14, 2009 audit we pointed out that on average across all sites in iraq the average contract labor utilization rate was less than 11%. are you saying he did or if you have heard of that before today? >> no. i am aware of the issue. i have seen a the preliminary information on it. i have not had a chance to see the final report, which came out on friday, i understand came on friday. >> have you seen the november 14 audit, which is the audit in which this issue but 10% utilization fro

underutilization more excess capacity as a commander you might want to have something in reserve. but how do you -- how do you explain to a layman having between three or ten, maybe 7% on average utilization in camp without getting into the task order plan, corporation, tell me how do you justify having say 5% use and 95% based? >> mr. commissioner, i think that what is important here to understand, and you may notice, we have a statement at work. in relation

we are, understand thoroughly how current spectrum is used, identify that part that is perhaps underutilized, that could be reallocated or submitted to spectrum sharing through the new spectrum sharing technologies. and then to the extent that based on that inventory it would be appropriate for broadcasters to enter into conversations about surrendering a portion of their spectrum on a voluntary basis that would obviously be an appropriate step. it would not in my view be an appropriate step to require that broadcasters engage in the surrender of any part of the spectrum they hold. and i thank the gentlelady for raising these very important questions that help illuminate the debate this morning. mrs. blackburn: i thank the chairman for his explanations and i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlelady yields back the balance of her time. the gentleman from virginia. mr. boucher: mr. speaker, at this time i'm pleased to yield three minutes to the gentleman from washington state, mr. inslee. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from washington is recognized for

with all safety advantages of the system it is shockingly underutilize. the freedom of information act revealed in 2008 that 98% of 249 coal mines in eastern kentucky did not have one minor's representative. only four had miners' representatives. one reason for the lack is my ears are often interfered with or at least discouraged by the operator if they show interest in becoming a minor threat. one of our current clients was discouraged from becoming a minor threat at his mine. special attention towards increasing the number of miners reps and i consider congress changing the law to allow minors reps on every shift at every mine. to ensure substantial safety protection. thank you. >> thank you for that suggestion. mr. e but bruce watzman. >> before turning to the topic of this hearing let me express the condolences of the entire mining community and the families of those who tragic lost their lives at a big branch line. our thoughts and prayers are with all the were touched by this tragedy and our heartfelt thanks go to the rescue team members who worked

i think there's so much potential opportunity and i think small businesses being underutilized in thisry, and that's an understatement frankly, in terms of what is not happening that should be happening to leverage small business. and i see this in this regard -- say this in this regard, when it comes to broadband deployment and technological innovation. there's a, you know, a widening gap, you know, they mentioned this in a release back if january, and it is astonishing, the u.s. trade gap widening in advance technologies, one of the papers that were released, it's more than $55 billion to be calculated over a -- over a year period. i mean, it's widening, in terms of how much we're importing, versus what we're exporting, in terms of advanced technology and the incubation for that development of technology is going to occur with small businesses, so we're not doing enough r&d, we're not nurturing them, so what can we do in that regard? is anybody able to answer that question? >> well, i would say, senator, this is one of the driving reasons for and objectives of the plan, to make sure

said you are providing a service but it was only utilized, used 3% or 7% of the time so grossly underutilized. that means government is paying more than one might otherwise. so what is your obligation if you have a better idea, say on this denbeaux contract. you want to tell your contract hours, there's a better way to do it. would say the government money but as a contractor i might walk away with less. what's your obligation to bring board that better idea or saving -- cost-saving idea to a customer? >> i will give a couple examples. a fixed-price contract, the price is fixed. so the cost savings to the government aren't quite so obvious of things that could be changed. i think we discussed at our briefing the whole concept of operations how we thought a better way to stand up that might be but that was prewar phase and that was discussed and it was the statement of work and that is what we did. in the context of cost reimbursement contracts, our company has a very good record i believe in and one that i'm proud of how we can say the government money. .. we've documented $11 million of cost

we have a great capacity as the country but it is be underutilized. that is the deficit as well. investments in education, scientific research, and availability of credit, if we did not get money out of small businesses, they cannot grow. we need to jump-start new technology and energy and we need to put the defense budget on the table. not to weaken our national security in any way, but we spend as much on defense as every other nation combined. and by 2015 that will be about 20% of our total federal budget. for example -- if we just cut the purchase of half-35 joint strike fighters and half, we would save $4 billion. if we keep missile defense systems in the research phase until they work -- which i think would be a good idea -- we could save about $6 billion. there are a number of outdated cold war weapons systems. so, if we literally do put everything on the table and we scrub the budget without prejudice and look at all of the pieces, i think there definitely are a tax revenues -- if we close loopholes -- and we have a bipartisan bill in the senate, judd gregg, senators wide

according to the office of management and budget, 46,745 buildings that are underutilized , with a total value of the ones that we should be selling, are worth worth $83 billion. and we're going to hear people say no, you can't do that. you can't sell those buildings. why? why would we go borrow money when we could sell buildings we're not using for $83 billion? almost enough in properties that we don't need and are having to maintain to pay for this entire bill. estimated savings this year alone from starting this would be $4 billion -- just from starting it, that process, would save us at least $4 billion this year. section 244, what we know is that at least 28 federal programs totaling over over $9 billion support job training and employment. 18 of these programs fall under the labor department's jurisdiction, and the agency spends $130 million administering its training and employment programs. so you have got 18 programs rather than one, you're spending spending $130 million just to manage them. this is just inside the department of labor. rather than have one job training program w

all of the inherent safety and it hinges of the rights system offers to the miners is shockingly underutilized. the freedom of information act response revealed in 2008 more than 90% of 249 call negative in eastern kentucky district number six didn't have one miner representative. only four of the 249 had miners represented. one reason for the lack of the miners reps is miners are often interfered with order fleeced discouraged by the operator that they show an interest in becoming. one of the current clients was discharged from becoming a representative in his mind. the interest to devote special attention toward increasing the number of miners reps and i would encourage congress to consider a change in the law to require on every shift and every line to aid to ensure the substantial safety protections gainedou you. >> thank you, mr. addington for the selection. we will get it seriously. mr. watson. -- before, mr. chairman for the opportunity. before turning to the topic of this hearing, let me again expressed condolences of the entire mining communities to the families of those who tragicall

i think it's probably underutilized, because there are so particular reason that somebody blood case.> regarding the accident that i talk about. if the second highest ranking diplomat in the embassy and indicated that he would be recalled home, this is according to an issue by michael one of the new york peist, but the president at the time stepped in particularly to assure the department the seriousness of the enlt, that that official and his obvious role in it, his country would not block efforts by the united states to prosecute that gentleman here. back to the phones. spencer, west virginia, on our line for independents. jeff, go ahead. caller: this is a very interesting top he can you have here this morning. my question, is if a high-ranking democrat were to commit a race and then not get prosecuted in the united states, if he was to go back to his home country, could that country bring him up on those charges or is it kind of a deal, well, this happened on our soil, so we can't do neglect. is there any cases of something like this happen and the guy going out. guest: well, certa

we have a great capacity as the country but it is be underutilized. that is the deficit as well. investments in education, scientific research, and availability of credit, if we did not get money out of small businesses, they cannot grow. we need to jump-start new technology and energy and we need to put the defense budget on the table. not to weaken our national security in any way, but we spend as much on defense as every other nation combined. and by 2015 that will be about 20% of our total federal budget. for example -- if we just cut the purchase of half-35 joint strike fighters and half, we would save $4 billion. if we keep missile defense systems in the research phase until they work -- which i think would be a good idea -- we could save about $6 billion. there are a number of outdated cold war weapons systems. so, if we literally do put everything on the table and we scrub the budget without prejudice and look at all of the pieces, i think there definitely are a tax revenues -- if we close loopholes -- and we have a bipartisan bill in the senate, judd gregg, senators wide