of columbia university tied toward 130,000 to 210,000 avoidable covid deaths in the u.s., and counting. it's all in the title, and they compare what's happened in the u.s. with other countries like france, australia, south korea, japan, and show if we'd been a bit on track with those countries, about 100,000 or 200,000 americans who have died from covid might still be alive today. this response has been an absolute failure and it really shows when you compare the numbers in the u.s. with other developed nations. >> okay, let's talk about how potentially to change this, dr. scott gottlieb, former commissioner of the fda wrote in the "wall street journal" this weekend saying it may be time now for a national temporary national mask mandate, and i wonder, given the effectiveness of masks, is that a step that you would recommend? >> jim, i think it would be so useful to have a mandate like that, because sure, not everyone is going to follow it. i get that, but at least it sends that clear signal about what is the right thing to do. right now we have top officials exposed to people with the virus, not doing their quarantine, as they should be, still campaigning, not wearing a mask. i've talked to people who