i mean, i think our views about internet free are not unnuanced. we appreciate that certain kinds of efforts to find a proper balance are, in fact, appropriate. so we're not, we're not trying to claim that everybody has to do things precisely the way we do them. >> host: ambassador verveer, when it comes to a country like reaction, what kind of efforts -- iran, what kind of efforts have been made to open up internet freedom? >> guest: well, iran presents, perhaps, a very extreme case because it's clear that the authorities there have understood taken extraordinary efforts to suppress free speech, to censor activities, to persecute people who might attempt to exercise or what we would regard as elemental human rights with respect to their discussion of political and related kinds of matters. the united states, of course, is concerned about that. we have pairly strong sanctions -- fairly strong sanctions now in place that we try to bring to bear with respect to iran. when it comes to communications-related products, we try to be sophisticated about w