he was unsentimental. when he lost an argument, when he lost a struggle he walked away from it said, okay, what's the next one? and he was very creative in coming up with ways to deal these problems. he and another delegate, lost to history, james wilson, between them quite a partnership in making the constitution happen. both really died in disgrace and very sad stories, but at the convention, they were terrifically important and very effective. >> the georgia delegate that we never heard of that you said if he hadn't done what he did we wouldn't have the same country we have today. >> yeah, abraham baldwin. unusual figure, he -- there was a key moment in the convention when the small -- it takes a second to set up -- big states, they were massachusetts, pennsylvania, virginia, which maybe today we don't think of as big states but they were then, were very eager to create proportional representation. so they would be able to vote their strength. until then, this country we always had one vote per state. a

>> well, i think that's the absolutely important and very unsentimental question, what the hell doesave an 84-year-old man, a man who's ruled for 307 years, he's dead, he's not dead, i'm reminded of the remark that arabs make they say is he dead and buried or just dead. i think the whole saga of mubarak is a side show of a side show. and mubarak and the remnants of the regime around him have been clever. what they've done is they have basically put out these stories about the health of this ruler and they have done their best to move this man from prison where he was sent right after his trial when he was sentenced to life in prison and they returned him to the hospital. this is really what the game is about as far as i can see. >> so fouad in terms of the back story to what the military has done, has there been for all intents and purposes a coup? >> i think there is some element of truth in this. you have this presidential election, because of the peculiar nature of the way the votes were cast, you end up with a man from the old regime, you end up with mubarak's last prime minister

>> i think that's absolutely important and very unsentimental question, what the hell does it matter?4-year-old man in a country with a life expectancy in the mid-60s. a man who ruled for 30 years. and now he's dead, he's not dead, he's clinically dead. i'm reminded of that remark that arabs make in a kind of irreverent way. they say about someone is he dead and buried or just dead. i think the whole saga of mubarak is a side show of a side show. mubarak and the remnants of the regime around him have been very clever. what they've done is they have basically put out these stories about the health of this ruler. and they have done their best to move this man from prison where he was sent right after his trial when he was sentenced to life in prison. and they returned him to the hospital. this is really what the game is about as far as i can see. >> so fuad, in terms of the back story to the presidential election, what the military has done, has there been in all intents and purposes a cue? >> well, i think there is some element of truth in this. you have this presidential election. you