>> my understanding is some financial institutions in europe are still banned from unsovereign debt. to be frank, i think it's swa a misguided approach. a lot of people want to be able to ensure against risk and they want to be able to use the market to that end. if this were a transparent market, if you could trace through underlying exposures, both on a gross and net basis in real time, i think from a sys m systemsyste systemic stability point of view, we could become more comfortable with it. mega banks take proprietary positions, for example, betting the house. senator conrad made a bet. it doesn't have to be through a naked position necessarily. there are other ways to do it. i think they should move towards transparency in all these markets, rather than banning this or that financial institution. you just shift the risks into other ways that are more murky and we live to regret. >> well, in that context, under dodd/frank, we're setting up a more transparent derivatives market. are there parallel efforts to create both an exchange and a clearinghou clearinghouse? >> not at the l

. >> unsovereign debt, yes. >> and particularly the europeans have hedge funds in their sights. i think it a somewhat misguided approach. a lot of people in financial markets want to be able tone sure against risk and they want to be able to use the swap market to that end. if this were a transparent market, if you could trace through underlying exposures both on a gross and net basis in realtime, i think from a systemic stability point of view, we could become more comfortable with it. it the lack of the ability of mega banks to quickly take pro pprietary positions, for example, betting the house. mf global failed because of bets made by senior management. it doesn't have to be through a naked s cds contracts necessarily. there are other ways to do it. i think that we should move towards transparency if all these markets rather than bannnancthl -- because you just shift the risks in other ways that are more murky and that we live to regret. >> in that context, under dodd-frank we're setting up a more transparent derivative mark are there parallel efforts in europe to clear up a