having a life and to love and like her and i was so startled when i first heard that because it's so unwestern. right? but i think there's one mountain and there's many -- i have never once literally in my life tried to get anyone to come to jesus. i hope that when i show up, you can feel that i am -- have been loved back to my feet, that you can't get from where i was to where i am now. it's not humanly possible. no human power could have relieved me. had an addiction and to every single thing you can have an addiction to, except gambling. and my friends in recovery said that's a big yet for me. [laughter] >> i might start gambling wednesday night in cincinnati. i don't know. >> but you know, one of the most poignant stories in the book is about kelly, and i don't think you have ever toll that story before in your writings, and kelly was someone who was in the program, but would distance her from it is this inability to give ascent to the higher power, the jesus thing or the god thing, to the hely turned her off to 12 step programs and show begins to isolate, and i mean, it's a rather tragic