joining us now is former's iraq ceo ursula burns. thank you for joining us.ppreciate having your perspective on this day. we hear so much rhetoric on this topic from large corporations who oftentimes talk about diversity in various metrics. what would you say is the biggest gap, and why would you say is there such a big gap between rhetoric and result such as the numbers we just showed on the number of women ceos? ursula: to be really frank, i think it is will and we have gone around the bend about the fact that we are not there -- the talent is not there, which we have proven, i think, over and over again, that that is not true. we can -- industry can and should be able to find executive women who can take the seats in boards room dashboard runs and the executive suite -- board rooms and the executive suite. it has gotten better, but it is still at a snail's pace. it is at the point where -- i have been known to speak against quotas, and i have recently changed my tune dramatically. at the end of the day, it is asking for people to do the right thing, which

ursula burns is a senior advisor at tenney and, a consulting firm.ously served as ceo of xerox. charlene a hunr gault, you've known vernon jordan for so many years. you've made a history together. give us a glimpse of him when you first met hi >> it's funny because he treated me like a little kid. he wasn't that much older than me, but he was a very serious legal assistant to consul smartly -- constance molly who were lead lawyers in the case. i just remember that he was focused. he was the youngest lawyer involved in the case, but they use to send him down to athens, georgia to try and find someone who had applied to the university of georgia at the same time i had a, had the same credentials, yet got in and i didn't. he and a bunch of assistants went through thousands of documents, and he finally was the one who found the critical document. judy: he did make the transition. he went on to be involved in voting rights and civil-rights, and then he made the transition to the private sector. he had a presence about him that could make him fit in in any

and ursula burns is a senior adviser at teneo, a consulting firm.ed as the c.e.o. of xerox. welcome to you, both. charlayne hunter-gault, you have known vernon jordon for so many decades. you both made history together. give us a glimpse of him when you first met him. >> ha-ha. well, it's funny because i laugh because he treated me like a little kid. you know, he wasn't that much older than me, but he was a very serious, you know, legal assistant to donald hollowell and constance motley, the lead lawyers in our case, and i just remember that he was focused. he was the youngest lawyer involved in the case but they used to send him down to georgia, the location of the university, every day to try and find, um, someone who had applied to the university of georgia at the same time i had and had the same credentials and yet got in and i didn't. and they went, he and a bunch of assistants went through thousands of documents. he finally was the one who found the critical document. >> woodruff: he did make the transition. of course, he went onto be very inv

ursula burns former ceo of xerox, and ken chenault with american express. good morning to you both.of you, including the two of you. i know nobody will not take the calls from either of you. i want to know, ken, if you could start us off, how did this come about? did you meet to discuss? what upset you, and what do you want corporate america to do? first, how did this come about? >> the way it came about, it came about sunday afternoon. for the past ten days, there has been very heavy email traffic and text traffic on what was happening in georgia and, in fact, what was being proposed in close to 43 states. and what we decided was that we needed to do something that had never been done before, which is african-american executives in corporate america standing up collectively for a social issue. there is nothing more fundamental than voting rights. >> yeah. >> and the reality is what we're doing is we're calling on companies not to make just general statements about the importance of voting and voter suppression, we're saying take a stand, publicly oppose any legislation. >> but -- >

, they're going to try to do it >> you see more of that on our series interesting to listen to ursula burnslked about ursula and done reporting. >> they need to be more creating they need to say we're going to take the -- mine for bitcoin i'm not kidding. by the way, tomorrow an interview, they have an auditor who comes in and audits them and audits the esg that's what you need you have to have an outsider determine whether what you say is for real. that's the only way i'll accept it >> that's interesting. >>> oil is, in fact, below 65 on some of the european reopening worries. we'll be back in a moment. i had saved up some money and then found the home of my dreams. but my home of my dreams needed some work sofi was the first lender that even offered a personal loan. i didn't even know that was an option. the personal loan let us renovate our single family house into a multi-unit home. and i get to live in this beautiful house with this beautiful kitchen and it's all thanks to sofi. >>> bitcoin takes a shot today out of b of a. bitcoin's dirty little secrets they say there's no good reason

>> well, first of all, i'm not the first, i'm the only right now, ursula burns was the first, when she. today, i'm the only one. and as i've said many times, math has no opinion. that's a stats statement, about where we are as a society. looking out over the next few years, i would hope that we would see some meaningful change, because i think it's going to be very hard to be a publicly-traded company in this country and not have diversity on your board. now, there are a lot of companies that still are in that state, and there's a lot of work that has to be done, and i think the needle is moving in the right direction for the right reasons, which is the public is not going to have this and the world is watching. and we all have to understand, in the board room, corporate america, we have to understand how accountable we are to this society. >> we're going to leave the conversation there congratulations again, we look forward to seeing you, hopefully in person, sooner or later, now that more and more people are getting vaccinated, and thank you again. >> thank you. >>> joe? >> final che