joining us is jim pethokoukis, and david madland, author of "hollowed out." he is also managing director at the center for american progress. the average ceo as we said makes on average, according to their study, 373 times the average worker. some say it is capitalism at work, but i think you believe something else is going on here. >> yeah, it is a problem and we shifted the rules now. and that ratio has changed. it used to be ceos made about 30 times the average worker. the pay for workers has grown very slowly. the income from the typical worker has declined since 1989. so we have a problem where things like minimum wage and things are not going up. and those at the top have been able to structure the rules so they benefit et doing very well. >> if it is publicly traded, some would say that the board should step in. the ceo is taking the fire and meeting shareholder expectations. >> if you look at ceo pay in top companies versus the workers in those companies it's not like 400, it's more like 80. some of those ratios are greatly exaggerated. the median hous