he joins us om new york. good to have you back on the program. >> great to be here. thank you for having me. >> congratulations on the 30 years at the post. how do you -- how do you historically situate that? 30 years at "the washington post"? >> it is very difficult. who knew -- who knew that i would have survived the 30 years at such an institution and who knew, you know, that the institution -- given the way things are now would have survived that long as well. but we're -- we're both still alive and kicking. >> what do you make quickly -- to your point now of the way the business is changing, that's to say this notion that people so in the not too distant future, that actual papers may be a thing of the -- of the past. >> it is a bewildering time. we had a lot of buyouts and down in head count. we're down in capacity, in our ability to do what newspapers really have to do for this -- the democracy to survive and to succeed. but i have to believe that -- that something new is coming that we're going to, that somehow we're going to make electronic distribution, whe