really stems from the real world perceived notion that the movement's outlook is redundantly utopia and while its members are yet to put forth clear and specific policy goals and here in ice the protestors chief task proving they can convert their momentum into targeted action but even if occupy were to recede into the annals of social resistance it would most likely leave behind the idea that the movement came to represent mainly that there is a y disconnect between the government and on the ground reality and that reality shows the western economic system experiencing a deep systemic crisis so perhaps the mean purpose has already been served mostly about that first francis i'd like to go to you in new york or you wrote i think we desperately need a popular uprising in the united states is this the uprising you were hoping for and where is this right if it is where is this oh where oh where is this uprising going. this this uprising is raising the issue of extreme inequality in the united states that inequality of both wealth and income has increased steadily over the past thirty five

we have pork, chicken, steak, he really wanted that jonestown was a great utopia to continue and so leftwith leal rye and he knew they were going to come back and talk to the media but that feature is now of redo we knew everyone and still. he knew the gig was up and what precipitated that? he was able to say after his security guard shot upon ryan some are now implicated in this crime we always said it is one for all all for one and not the guy and the army is going to close in and torture us and so it would be better to take on the potion and for the custody of her side. >> one more question. >> did you speak to the department of justice or other investigators? >> i spoke with indigent on the scene of jonestown after the massacre he was a lead photographer who was down there. as far as the department of justice, i mean most of their documentation including all of their internal investigation was released in these files and that is what i work off. [inaudible] [applause] >> this event was hosted by the jimmycarterlibrary.org museum. to find out more about the events, visit jimmycarterli

[laughter] it's something, if you are -- it makes you feel for the vision that is utopia. and i think that may be for people to think why should we not believe in something much more satisfactory to the mind into the heart than what we are living now? not only try to grab something from what is possible, let's quickly get a little more money he or there. that is not very amusing. it may take some time but it doesn't lead to be a real person. [applause] >> on that note, can i just ask you if you can talk to us a little bit about how your own personal history informs these ideas? in particular, your book is among other things a return to the ideas, the ideals that fuel the french resistance. and maybe you can talk to us a little bit about your experience and i think the values and the principles of the french resistance were so formative for you and are still relevant today. >> yes. somebody wanted something? [inaudible] >> for him? >> okay. >> is it all right? should answer your question? yes, i will. speak in you go talk to them? thank you. go ahead, please. we will work o

he wanted that fantasy that jonestown was this great utopia that to continue. when those defectors left with leo ryan he knew they were going to come back and talk to the media and talk about how horrible conditions were. that the preacher is rehearsing them in suicide drills and planning to kill everyone. and won't let anybody leave. he knew the game was up. what precipitated that? he was able to say after his security guards shot leo ryan's department party, our people are implicated in this crime and we have always said one for all and all for one and now the guyana army is going to close in and torture us so better to take this potion and slip across to the other side. he believed in reincarnation. >> one more question. >> did you speak to any of the department of justice or other investigators? >> i spoke with an fbi agent who was on the scene of jonestown after the massacre. he was the lead photographer who was down there. as far as department of justice, most of their documentation including all of their internal investigation was released in these files

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. >> it's utopia up here. >> reporter: real estate developer terry metzger says new home construction, already booming, is up another 67% this year. >> everybody wants to make their money but it's not just about the money. they just feel so good to be working again. >> reporter: the krugmans see a fresh start and a long-term future here. they're buying a new home and hope to move in by christmas. do you guys feel like pioneers a little bit? >> little bit. we're definitely in on the very beginning of this. >> reporter: and all of this is because there is so much oil under the ground there in north dakota and montana, brian, they think there's at least 24 billion barrels of oil underground. >> it's an incredible story and we'll see more on this tonight. folks who know someone chronically unemployed, this really is the place to go. as we may mention again later on, it's just one of the stories on the premiere of "rock center" tonight, 10/9 central on this nbc station. harry will be here with us. >>> up next as we continue, who would pass up a high-paying promotion in this day and age? we

kiss who basically want to do away with the us government and return to some kind of those anarchist utopia i don't think that's going to work you then have the reformers like myself although i am not calls occupy i believe in and support occupy. and i believe that the only thing that will clean the us government is to flush congress down the toilet there for electoral reform as a singular demand is necessary but the reformers aren't doing that they're talking about everything under the sun and it's the same problem that affected the one nine hundred sixty s. group. d. the good will to people mistake cooled by holding hands looking deeply into each other's eyes and trying to satisfy everybody they mistake that for political spectacles they are intersected at this time. and then the third group unfortunately is all the people who have no jobs who find occupied to be a gauging place where they can get some food and they can they can be in good company so occupy is not organized itself and it has failed to come together as a fund raising organization i actually talked to the management of the

probably unifies the movement more than anything is the idea of sort of this kind of a political utopia consensus consensus based democracy and so that's that's the whole movement revolves around these general assemblies and their sort of wonderful ideas and basically you know liberal commentators like and so that is beautiful you know fortunately it isn't like tahrir square because it was a professional political protest political aims but they said you know the six already this beautiful and unfortunately it doesn't represent anything that's particularly politically practical and it's not it's not an example of american democracy that isn't what democracy looks like you know having. acquiring consensus and you know paint it all viewpoints isn't really want to marx it looks like it isn't what's made functional democratic societies work. but that is i think what it what ties all together is this is this raising consensus which ok fred francis of france were ranters go jump in there because an actual history ok you know actually social movements that look something like occupy wall stree

central oslo with a car bomb and went on a deadly shooting rampage at a youth camp on the island of utopia his previous hearings have been held behind closed doors with the main trial expected to start in april. in afghanistan the taliban has obtained leaked government documents and kabul the papers include security arrangements for president hamid karzai and several cabinet ministers the group published the twenty seven pages on its website claiming the details would allow it to launch precision attacks afghan officials originally denied the papers were real but now confirm they're authentic and that the security arrangements have since changed. isis excess will blast off from the baikonur cosmodrome in kazakhstan has sent three cosmonauts aboard a russian spacecraft on their way to the international space station it's the first launch since a similar unmanned spy used rocket carrying supplies for the i assess crashed almost three months ago artie's tom barton picks up the story. launch time with the baikonur cosmodrome that these three men have gone up to join their colleagues in the int

and you can you answer it's a religion it's a religion it's a utopian belief system and remember utopia comes from a word coined by thomas moore in fifteen sixteen from the greek roots meaning no place doesn't exist it's actually just so you know it's it's so i think that. i think that that that system that will in describes is probably a correct characterization of where we are with this interesting twist wolen argues in his book the martyrs incorporated that. that you maintain a system of inverted totalitarianism even as wages decrease which real wages for most america are satisfied for three years exactly. through credit there and through cheap mass produced goods now we're seeing the credit dry up there is no credit and we're seen a permanent underclass which is so crippled by mortgage payments credit card debt medical bills that they can't even afford the mass produced goods and i spoke with roland not long ago and asked him given that given that those are the control mechanisms could we see this system of inverted totalitarianism flip into a more classical form of totalitarianism

also, i imagine that you, vouchsafed with the one true faith according to which there is a utopia to which you can strive, and there are some people who hear about this utopia, but they just stubbornly rejected. well, how evil eye they? well, you do the math. arbitrarily evil. that is why the details of the distribution of massive violence tends to be pushed outward by utopian ideology. well, what do we have on the other side to counteract these motives for violence? what are our better angels? will, self control, the ability to anticipate the consequences of our behavior and to inhibit violent impulses. there is end of the, the ability to feel of his pain. there is the moral sense, which is a family of intuitions, some of which, like tribalism, a authoritarianism, and puritanism can actually increase violence, at least one flavor of the moral sense, the drive for fairness in counteract violence. and then there is reason, the faculties and allow us to update in objective attached analysis. well, if we have these inclinations toward violence on the one hand, these innovations against

everything kind of in a racial term, and for him, jim jones message about equality and establishing this utopia where there would be no racism or sexism or elitism, i mean, that really fell sweetly on his ears so he was drawn to the jim jones' church. it was not just black or whites, but 70s mix of people who really wanted to do something to improve social justice. another person is tommy vogue sent down to jonestown as a teenager like i was sent down to my reform school as a teenager to straighten me out, and he was sent to jonestown to get straightened out. he was skipping class and stopped going to church, and so he was sent down there to, you know, isolate him from negative peers, and i really bonded with tommy, and one thing people don't realize is that a third of the people who died in the jonestown massacre were minors. that's another view. what's it like to be in a church just because you're parents are members and be in jonestown and have, you know, no say in the manner. the -- i also profile his father, so it's tommy vogue, jim vogue, stanley clayton, the young man from oakland, it's

and for him jim jones' message about equality and establishing this utopia where there would be no racism or sexism or elitism, i mean, that really fell sweetly on his ears. so he was drawn to jim jones church. so you had, you know, it would you believe the just blacks -- it wasn't just blacks, it wasn't just whites, this was this '70s mix of people who really wanted to do something to improve social justice. another person i follow through is tommy boag who was sent down to jonestown as a teenager. he was sent down to straighten, you know, to get straightened out. he was skipping class and, you know, stopped going to church. and so he was sent down there to, you know, to isolate him from negative peers. and i really bonded with tommy. one thing people don't realize is that a third of the people who died in the jonestown massacre were minors, so that's another perspective; what is it like to be in a church just because your parents are members and end up in jonestown and have, you know, no say in the matter? and then the, i also profile his father, so it's tommy, jim boag, stanley clayton

tell me if you don't because you are the expert on geary, but i think that angles of socialism and utopiais a good place to start because it isn't easy, compact introduction to his thinking and the communist manifesto is also appeared but you have to make sure which version you read because there's so many revisions with introductions and additions from various points of view that the person is looking to have to make sure they get as close to the 1848 version as. >> host: and you wouldn't recommend all three volumes? >> guest: kapital one is actually not a bad read. the first 200 pages are rough going, but after that -- ..

the cost benefit analysis and a match and that you are with the one true faith to which there is a utopia in some people who hereabouts this but they still run the reject it. how evo are they? you do the math. arbitrarily evil. that is why the details of distribution of massive violence tend to be pushed out or by the utopian ideology is. what is on the other side to counteract the motives? self control, the consequences of our behavior and to feel others' pain in the moral sense the family of into a chance some of which like tribalism can actually increase by lance but at least one flavor of the moral sense the drive for fairness can counteract islands and then the cognitive fact to allow us to engage in the attached analysis. if we have the inclinations of violence toward one hand and what has tipped the balance over the course of history or what has brought out our better angels? the first possibility proposed in the book called the leviathan. referring to the state and judicial system with a monopoly on the legitimate use it exploited by the attack in to reduce the need for deterrence

and yankeedom was founded by radical calvinists trying to create a religious utopia, and this is important for understanding the culture today because the idea was to try to make the world more godly and actually do social engineering and create a more perfect place on earth. and this was done through public institutions and governments. and yankeedom has been on the side of efforts to reform and improve society, be it from prohibition through women's rights to the abolition of slavery to the environmental movement and beyond. >> warner: let's take a complete opposite it's deep south. 85 us thence of the deep south and how different was it. >> the deep south was founded several generations later by english planters from barbados and created it as a west indian slave society modeled on the republics of ancient antiquity, the slave states of ancient greece and rome. and the deep south is a more traditional order with respect to hierarchy which has often been proposed to the reforms. they found themselves at the opposite sides of the great flashpoint of our history. >> warner: when the north

jonestown was not yet a tropical paradise, jones was determined to one day make it the socialist utopiabut for now home was san francisco. and by 1976, jones had made peoples temple a major player in local politics. >> if any movement in san francisco needed 100 bodies to show up for a demonstration, they'd just call peoples temple and the temple would send 500 people. >> people's people reached into the community with badly needed social services. all free. jones had become a darling of san francisco politicians. >> you have managed to make the many persons associated with peoples temple part of a family. if you're in need of health care, you get health care. if you're in need of legal assistance of some sort, you get that. if you're in need of transportation, you get that. and that's the kind of religious thing that i'm excited about. >> in 1977, jones was honored with the annual martin luther king jr. humanitarian award. mayor george moscone, whose narrow election was due in no small part to peoples temple support, repaid jones by appointing him to the housing commission. >> whenever

they are not going to get it from the university of utopia they are attending or they are at -- majornti-american studies. [applause] you have to stop being so quiet about what you know, about how extraordinary this country is. you are going to have to do a thing you do not want to do. it is lovely being here among friends. you are going to have to talk to that of not just that you have. to that arrogant needs -- neice. you are going to have to talk to them about the american dream, what this country means. nobody else is going to do it. [applause] i am going to find my left page. somebody said this. i want to put from that person. -- quote from that person. we are lucky because we have a petri dish for a lot of stuff. we have seen cuba. we have seen the soviet union. we have seen in north korea. we of looking at europe. we are looking at europe. we have a petri dish. you need to get busy and do something. preaching to the choir is a gorge is. it is one of my favorite things. you have to talk to those eight children who are being bred -- idiot children where it who are being bred. the

this country from watching television they are certainly not going to get it from the university of utopiaout how extraordinary this country is. and you're going to have to do the things you don't want to do because he knows something is lovely chatting to friends in this lovely being here among friends, but you're going to have to take that obnoxious nephew you had to that era kidneys do to have, to your own child who don't recognize. you are going to have to talk to them about the american dream, about what this country means because no one else will do it if you don't do it. [cheers and applause] and i am going to find my last days because someone is this an awful lot better than me and i want to quote from that person if i could ever find the pages. you should really number your pages. [laughter] we are lucky because we have a petri dish for a lot of stuff here rather putrid dish for what it looks later they control federalized economy. with a patcher -- for that. we've seen cuba, the soviet union. we have seen and by the way they look inaccurate. what a great success story that is. wi