system. i understand va is working to get a replacement system in place. i would like the department's commitment that they will work to get this done right and get it done soon. the ig findings also show some serious addition kr serious discrepancies. 95 first of veterans received mental health evaluations within 14 days, in reality, it was only about 50%. vha data reported that after the evaluation was completed, 95% of veterans received a treatment appointment within 14 days, in reality it was only 64%. for those in treatment, 12% were scheduled beyond a 14-day follow-up appointment window will providers telling the ig that they were delaying follow-up for months, not because of the veteran's needs, but because their schedules were too full. va is failing to mite it's own mandates for timeliless and at the same time making the data look like they're complying. the va can and will do much better. vast week va announced the addition of 1,600 mental providers and late last year, the va announced an increase in staffing levels at the veteran's crisis line.

i very much hope the va will make real changes to address the systemic problems i describe. i believe there are steps the va can take beyond adding staff. i humbly offer these suggestions. first the va should stop monetarily rewarding -- they're not real measure -- the va should institute a much more extensive oversight as to exactly how the -- the funds actually go to the programs they are intended to supplement. finally i would urge this committee to implement and develop a very long overdue and periodically supported staff and health methodology. so there's no need to guess whether 1,900 more staff will be enough. i am happy to share my -- i would be very pleased to answer any questions you may have. thank you. >> thank you very much. major general jones. [ inaudible ] >> can you hear me now? >> move the mike up to you. >> i'm thomas jones, i don't have any expertise in menl health, but i have a lot of experience dealing with those who have mental health issues. i have been visiting walter reed and bethesda every week since the start of the war in afghanistan in 2001. i ha

the workload on the va system is only going to increase. so failing to fully fund the va or appropriate the funding in advance will inflict pain and hardship on thousands of veterans, among the most useful programs given by the va is the education, they have furthered their education, increased their jobs. one of the single greatest drets to success is the lack of state approving agencies to prevent fraud particularly in the realm of for profit schools, the majority of profit schools are an honest -- however as pointed out in the independent budget, many for profit schools are just not holding up their end. for profit schools carry a third of -- it does not appear that we are giving veterans the tools they need to seek a valued education. first we must collect useful data on both student and institutional success. without mandatory uniform data collection across the board, private, public, for profit, not for profit, we will never be able to give the veterans the information on the choices they have to make. having data on schools is useless

do you believe that va facilities are gaming the system and not fully reporting wait times? >>. >> senator, i would say that we have zero tolerance for that and we are going to continue our audits and reviews to ensure with additional training of scheduling practices that this is not occurring. this is certainly not a practice that can be condoned. >> well, you heard mr mr. tolentino. he talked about the manchester va increasing their mental health workload numbers in order to get additional resources despite not having enough staff to support that growth. the quantity over quality i believe that you stated it. and the result is veterans are not getting the care that they need and i'm really shocked that the va allowed providers to be put in that kind of dilemma where they have to choose between following directions from their leadership and following the ethics of their profession. so let me ask you, what are you going to do to ensure that the quality of care is not being sacrificed as you continue to meet these timeliness standards? >> i think it's a multifold approach goi

va institute more extensive oversight into how mental health care is actually delivered and funds are spent. again how adept many of the facility administrators are at getting around the current system without getting caught, how do you think the va ask most effectively perform that oversight? >> madam chairman, to be perfectly honest i don't have a good answer for you, because of the fact that the gaming is so prevalent. as soon as something is put out, it is torn apart to look to see what the work around is. i feel that the reports, the reporteding that is done is -- it's very redundant reporting, that it feels like it goes nowhere, there's no feedback loop, it's one way, we're telling you exactly what you in most times want to hear that we did. at the facilities and even at the network. but there's no coming back and rechecking or coming back and feedback to say, well, you said you spent this money on these services, but there's no workload to verify it. there's nothing concrete to be able do speak to what you say you've done. i remember in the short time that i worked there, many times, we got fast amounts of financial moneys for different programs, but very, very seldomly did w

yes or no, to these the fee-based of outside the va system? >> we should send out where we do not have the capacity, but we should for those who are most at risk that can need urgent care, we should ensure that they receive treatment within the va. >> but you're not, correct? >> well. >> i'm not saying every time but there are instances where there's been a problem. is that a fair statement? >> and where we do that, we need to ensure that we have -- >> sir, listen, it's pretty simple. are there instances in which we, the va collectively everybody here we've let somebody fall through the cracks? yes or no. >> there are instances where veterans. >> we're not perfect, okay. in those instances should we then be making sure that we don't doe that again and if there is a problem that we refer them to the appropriate open agencies that can help right away. is that a fair statement? >> yes, but -- >> but area only doing 2% of those folks actually are referred out. it's clear there may be some va sectors where there is a problem, not everybody and thes

as you well know, it's hard enough to get veterans into the va system to receive mental health care, once a veteran does take a step to reach out for health, we need to knock down every potential barrier to care. clearly the report your team produced shows a huge gap between the time that the va says it takes to get mental health care and the reality of how long it takes them to get seen at facilities across their country. va has concurred with all of your recommendations, but i think it's clear we all have some real concerns. some of these issues have been problems for years. so can you address a question of what you think it would take to get the va to get this right this time. >> i think to begin with, the veteran population is zurlsed across the country and the va is not evenly dispersed across the country. those veterans that go to fixed facilities to receive their care, the va is probably trying to address the current plan for 1600 people, i haven't seen the details of the plan, so i don't know. i think the first issue is to realize that you have a problem where you have facili

. >> half of the nation's vets get their healthcare outside the va systems. >>> hard to believe a newborn baby found alive in a morgue. it happened in argentina. doctors told the parents she died after birth. they went to the morgue to see the child and they found her alive. after spending 12 hours in a refrigerated room. baby and parents ares to be doing fine now -- ares to be doing fine now. >>> we got more showers in your forecast, the morning commute will be wet. i will see you back here in 10. if you grow for me, you'll get cookies for free. nothing worked. ♪ but we started using miracle-gro garden soil. you just mix it with your backyard soil... and it feeds your plants for up to 3 months. my plants grew bigger... more beautiful... with more flowers and vegetables. guaranteed. everything changed with miracle-gro. for you are these flowers, like soap is for showers. everyone grows with miracle-gro. >>> officials anorth korea will launch long range rocket. they believe north korea are testing its capabilities. the u.s. threatened to suspend food if they carry out the launch. >>> the c

system. i understand va is working to get a replacement system in place. i would like the department's commitment that they will work to get this done right and get it done soon. the ig findings also show some serious discrepancies in what va has been telling this committee and veterans. va stated that 95% of veterans received mental health evaluation within 14 days. in reality it was only about 50%. vha data reported that after the evaluation was completed, 95% of veterans received a treatment employment within 14 days n. reality it was only 64%. for those in treatment, 12% were scheduled beyond the 14-day follow-up appointment window with providers telling the ig that they were delaying follow-up for months not because of the veterans' needs, because their schedules were too full. va is failing to meet it own mandates for timeliness and instead is finding ways to make the data look like they are complying. va can and must do much better. important steps have been taken in the right direction by the department. last week va announced the addition of 1600 m

in the end, simply hiring more staff and fixing the va's broken scheduling system will not cure all the issues. but it will certainly take a combination of changes at the facility level and the v.a. office level, and the v.a. will use all available resources, developing better performance metrics to fix a broken system. i concur with you, the individual people there are doing yeoman's work, but it's still not enough. you need more people, you need more computers. what is it? $5.9 billion should go a long way to addressing those issues. madam chair, as i reference, i'm heading upstairs, just to give a quorum and then i'll be back down. i look forward to everybody's testimony. thank you. >> at this time, i would like to introduce the first panel. representing the v.a. is mr. bill shownhart, v.a.'s deputy in health operations in management. accompanied today by dr. antoinette soois, chief consultant for mental health services and dr. mary shone, with the health veterans administration. from the inspector general, dr. david day, assistant inspector general for health care inspections, accom

it is not day va system by itself. >> it is a collective system. iif someone were to come to me and mention they were homeless, i would point them into the direction of the community-based organization. >> as your first choice? >> correct. if the va could partner with other organizations that can focus on the unique needs, the va is a big organization. there are a little teeny bits that need to be addressed. >> we have a program in anchorage. we worked with a group called save harbor. this is for families. the costs for dade was maybe $15 for the agency. at any moment, someone could transition there quickly, a community kitchen a environment. they would bring in folks to work with people to ensure they have jobs or education or whatever they're looking to do. think it is an incredible model. it was not a government run. it is a mixture between foundations and faith based. that is how the va the partner. they want to do well. i know that. do they have the ability to do it? do they need to rethink this model in a little bit more? are they too bureaucr

it's not a va system by itself, it's a collective system. >> i agree with you that it is a collectivestem. if someone were to come to me and mention that they were homeless, um, i would just from the little knowledge that i have or organizations, i would point them into the direction of the community-based organizations. >> as your first choice. >> correct. um, i think that the va just -- if they could partner with other organizations that can focus on the unique needs, um, because, you know, the va is this big organization, um, but there are the little teeny bits of hearts out there that need to be addressed. >> to connect into the system. >> correct. a joint effort. >> which i give you an example. we have a program in anchorage when i was mayor, actually before i was mayor, from the real estate industry we worked with a group, it's called safe harbor which, actually, the units -- it's for families. basically, it was a hotel but really designed for families, and i think the largest family, diane can remind me, i think was nine members to give you a sense. but each unit was owned by a

it is not day va system by self. >> it is a collective system. re to come to me and mention they were homeless, i would point them intohe direction of the community-based organization. >> as your first choice? >> correct. if the va could partner with other organizations that can focus on the unique needs, the va is a big organization. there are a little teeny bits that need to be addressed. >> we have a program in anchorage. we worked with a group called save harbor. this is for families. the costs for dade was maybe $15 for the agency. at any moment, someone cou transition there quickly, a community kitchen and environment. they would bring in folks to work with people to ensure they have jobs or education or whatever they're looking to do. i think it is an incredible model. it was not a government run. it is a mixture between foundaons and faith based. that is how the va the partner. they want to do well. i know that. do they have the ability to do it? do they need to rethi this model in a little bit more? are they too bureaucratic? de think the

i'm honored to appear here today to share deep concerns about the administration of the va's mental health care system. my testimony is based on my experience as a v.a. administrative officer, as well as service on a v.a. network committee. membership in several groups and background in quality management. deep concerns about the manchester new hampshire failure to provide needed care ultimately led to my resignation last december. i want to commend this committee for your vigilant oversight of v.a. health care. let me also acknowledge the announcement of plans to add to its position and address problems you have helped to uncover. but i want to emphasize that additional staff alone will not remedy the systemic problems in the v.a. management of mental health care. let me be clear. i do not wish to discredit the v.a. or its mental health staff who work diligently to help veterans. but the v.a.'s mental health system is deeply flawed. the is it system is too open to put goals ahead of veterans' health care needs. it is too susceptible to gaming practices. and too little focused on overseeing the effect

va or mental help staff. while it does try to help, the system is deeply flawed. they have put numerical performance goals ahead of the needs of veterans. practices aimed at making these facilities look good. these systemic problems compromise the work of the dedicated mental health staff. like many v.a. medical centers, the overriding objective at our facility was to meet our numbers. meaning to beat performance measures. the goal was to see as many veterans as possible, but not necessarily to provide them with treatment that they needed. performance measures are well intended, but they are linked to executive pay and bonuses, allowing the numbers to inflate without actually providing services. a higher priority would be to meet the measure, rather than the needs of the veterans. administrators to not feel they can acknowledge this, instead as soon as new performance management program manuals were pro -- were published each year, a plan began for how to meet those measures. even with brainstorming across the country, loopholes were being found so the requirement

system. now that you have read the ig report,ead the a want to ask the same question i asked in november. you believe va facilities are gaming the system and not fully reporting wait time? >> we have zero tolerance for that, senator. we will continue our audits and reviews that this is not occurring. this is not a practice that can be condoned. >> you have heard that he talked about the manchester va, increasing their mental health workload numbers in order to get additional resources despite not having enough staff to support that growth. the quantity over quality that is stated. the result is veterans are not getting the care they need. i'm really shocked that the va allowed providers to be put in that kind of dilemma where they have to choose between following directions from their leadership and following the ethics of their profession. let me ask, what are you going to do to ensure that the quality of care is not being sacrificed as you continue to meet these timeline standards? >> it is a multifold approach underwayward that's and we have been implementing. first, we need to ensure the staffing mo

va. right now. tomorrow will feel much cooler. some rain in the possibility. a systemhe south will rotate up to the northeast. most of the rain will stay south of washington. a 50% chance we will see showers in the area. dry air will return. temperature was will drop from the upper 70's in spots to the low 70's. 70 degrees in frederick. as to give further west we are down into the 60's. chilly weather in michigan's upper peninsula. boston has the wind out of the west and that is keeping them warm. if it were blowing out of the east the temperatures would be only in the 50's. looking for warm temperatures there is some warm in the air mass. over the weekend there is a chance of another storm system developing that will have a more profound effect. here is what we have in the short term. aeries of rain in the mid- atlantic. things will get out of here by late at night. parleys -- it partly cloudy skies on thursday. computer model has been pretty consistent. it will bring some much-needed rain. not great timing, but we definitely need the rain. it will also watch some of

system for these people. we've been, we also want to keep in mind, though, that samhsa, the va, working with hud, pursuing permanent supportive housing as an integral part of treatment strategy, it becomes then the services associated with the housing. what sober living housing offers is an environment. permanent supportive housing, however, may be not be as focused initially on recovery, and so we need to facilitate those services in those settings. because vouchers are being handed out by hud and these programs are being facilitated, but we do need to make sure that there's sufficient services available to address the psychological and-and the substance-related issues that a person may experience. and how do people gain access to that information in order for them to go and basically, i wouldn't say demand, but really negotiate for those types of services, barbara? well, there has to be coordination, and one of the things that the affordable care act is gonna offer is also case management, and hopefully through these case management services there can a seamless transition from recovery into the community, and th

system and that is delaying benefits. more than 416,000 vets have enrolled for the spring semester. the vaxpected the surge of 40,000 iraq vets came home in the last to two months of -- two months of 2011 alone but the demand really exceeded the expectations, the latest version of the gi bill covers almost $18,000 of annual tuition for private schools and full tuition for public schools. >>> twitter is taking legal action. the social networking site is suing five other kens. it says they build the tools that make it so easy to spam people on twitter and across the internet. >>> more and more folks are reaching for starbucks at the grocery store. revenue is growing well. it's doing well with the k cups and its instant via product and later this year expect to see 60-calorie energy drinks in stores and it's bringing in flash pasteurized juices, very fancy juices. >> what does that mean? >> it's part of the whole juicing wave that's taking place in america. it bought this company -- juicing yeah and it's -- sort of fancy juices. >> i'm wonder if that's going to go. you think starbucks you thi

system is hopelessly insufficient and needs to be replaced. the ig findings also show some serious discrepancies in what va has been telling this committee and veterans. >> that was senator patty murray, chair of veterans affairs, speaking today at a senate hearing. also today at that hearing was an undersecretary at the va. also a veteran. also somebody from the ig's office, the inspector general's office, also a retired major general. not at the hearing today, the guy in charge of the va. secretary of veterans affairs, eric shinseki was invited by the committee to speak today, to offer testimony, to explain what's going on in his department and how he intends to fix it. he did not show up. iraq and afghanistan veterans of america, which is the largest organization of veterans from these wars, they have been asking for a meeting with the secretary for a while now. they again requested to meet with him this week to talk about this devastating report on a really important issue. so far, bupkis. this is not partisan at all and this is a big freaking deal. >>> once upon a time, newt gingrich was the republican front-runner for president. and he was runn

va mental health performance data is not accurate or reliable. the veterans administration says they will work to correct the problems with the lag time for care and reporting the system>>> a treasured soccer ball taken away by the devastating tsunami has turned up thousands of miles away here in the u.s. adding to the drama and amazement its owner has come forward to claim it. the ball belongs to a 16-year-old boy who is very thankful to be getting it back. the soccer ball is his only surviving possession and it has always been very special to him when he transferred schools, his friends signed it with messages of good luck. >>> a radar technician found it. it is the first salvageable debris from the tsunami that could actually be returned to its owner. >>> just in to the newsroom, crews are in the process of removing that wrecked yacht. this is video taken a few moments ago. you can see a huge aerial crane removing that wreckage. the crash on april 14th left one person dead and four others missing and presumed dead. >>> still ahead at 6:00, new guidelines for migraine sufferers. >>> also ahead, is fresh really better? the surprising new study involving canned goods.

system, and not so reporting waiting times. you heard mr. tolentino's assessment about the manchester va regularly using to artificially meet their measures, often at the direct expense of veteran care. so now that you've read the ig report and perform your own audit of mental health practices at various va facilities, and just listen to his testimony, i want to ask you the same question today that i asked you in november. do you believe that these facilities are gaming the system and not fully reporting wait times? >> senator, i would say that we have zero tolerance for that, and we are going to continue our audits and reviews to ensure with additional training and scheduling practices that this is not occurring. this is certainly not a practice that can't be condoned. >> well, you heard mr. tolentino. he talked about the manchester viacom increasing the mental health workload numbers nor to get additional resources, despite not having enough staff to support that growth. the quantity over quality i believe is, as you stated it. and the result is a better site getting the care that they