and kasie, an example of the consequential advice that valerie biden owens gave behind the scenes. bate. she advised him to move on, to forgive. that obviously proved to be very consequential advice, it's now a winning ticket. second, she's among the people who have advised him to stick to his instincts, to be centrist at this time when the rising wing of the party is progressive. more liberal. she advised him to stick with where the election returns show most of america is. >> and that consistency has been a hallmark of this campaign. let's talk about what's playing out this week in terms of republicans refusing many of them to accept joe biden as president-elect. you guys have some leaked audio with some news on this front? >> that's right. this audio from a call yesterday with the u.s. agency for international development, you see it as u.s. aid, this showed the multiple fronts on which the trump administration is resisting a biden victory. so jonathan swan obtained this audio of a call in which trump administration appointee said that joe biden had not won, that the electoral co

valerie mean to joe? >> well, you hit the nail on the head. moynihan and kennedy were some of joe biden's inspirations coming up in this business. and their partnership, valerie biden, valerie -- now valerie biden owenshen 48 years ago this month was a pioneer in her own right. a female campaign manager at a time when that was extremely rare. this was a family operation. she was running the campaign. his brothers were helping to raise money. and joe biden and of course his late wife amelia hunter and their three kids were out on the road. and from the very beginning of that career all the way through six runs for office, she has been intertwined with joe biden's thinking. she understands how he thinks about basic moral commitments. and let's be clear. she's also pretty savvy on the subject of politics. so when you heard her say the other day in her interview with mike allen of axios that there's no way that joe biden's going to tell you today he's not running for a second term, that's also smart politics. because if he did that then immediately the conversation would shift to talking about who's going to run instead. so they know how to do this. they've been at it a long time. it's one of the reasons

his former chief of staff, and his sister, valerie biden owens. we don't know exactly who was with joe biden right now. something else that we know the biden team has been doing is watching president trump very closely. when the president spoke last night we got a text message from a biden official who said this. he said the president's remarks were desperate, baseless and a sure sign he knows he is losing. something else that is notable about this development normally when you are at a campaign hq for a candidate and there is a development like this, there is a tv screen with a broadcast and a huge reaction. you see something or you hear something. but none of that here because of the hour and because of covid-19 considerations and nobody here right now. if they decide for him to spoke right now it's all quiet still in wilmington. >> trace: who would you hear from first, peter? give us a timeline here. if the former vice president plans to come out, how does that get to you? >> that's a great question. the campaign has been hosting a conference ca