he was not the source of the leak of valerie plame's name. he serve the president, the vice president, and the nation with distinction for many years. he deserved a presidential pardon. he deserved a presidential pardon. he deserved it and didn't get it. usually in politics, you have to do a little reading between the lines. what does it mean by that? what's the context here? in this case, no interpretation needed. libby deserved a pardon, bush wouldn't give it to him. bush is wrong. love dick cheney. whether or not president bush or a bush loyalist returns fire and turns this exchange of fire into a full-blown political war remains to be seen, but it is now quite clear that dick cheney's role in our politics now, the mission of the most prominent republican in the country is to defend, for lack of a better construct, the cheney legacy. the legacy he's defended against democrats, republicans, and the other president in the cheney administration. take the issue of guantanamo, for example. this is president bush's take on guantanamo in june of

scooter libby was asked several times -- did dick cheney tell you to talk about valerie plame? and he said, i don't recall. he said that several times. so it's -- there's no doubt that scooter was protecting his boss -- and his boss' boss. >> evidence at the trial showed that cheney told libby she's cia -- his wife is cia and you can talk to reporters about that? >> no, the evidence showed that he told libby -- he was the one who told libby even though libby was working hard to find out himself that valerie plame -- not only working for the cia, cheney found out for george tenet that she worked for the director of operations which proved more likely that she had covert status but couldn't prove it and told libby he could talk to reporters ability joe wilson and the national intelligence estimate. it's not clear whether he told scooter libby to talk about valerie plame. >> as we try to assess the political impact of this. what you know about cheney or what you've reported about this, is there anyone in the republican party he would see as influential right now. if anyone came to

if you tell the president of the united states, i'm not involved in this valerie plame leak and thencome out and say to the public and then it turns out you are, which is exactly what happened with karl rove, it's not prosecutable, but again it's wrong. and so karl rove now makes his living as a pundit, a so-called truth teller, his own truth. if it turns out this evidence indicates he's not a guy to be trusted, that should have some impact, too. >> what do we know now. as reporters you have written the best book on it, the role that rove and libby, the chief of staff to the former vice president, all those guys, played in terms of the big role in american history. the tough way in which they prosecuted the war, made the case for the war and then punished those who brought it into question. >> that's the ultimate legacy of the entire bush crowd is the war in iraq and all the mistakes that were made. and misrepresentations -- >> it looks like we're finally going to be pulling out of there pretty soon. >> there's no question that rove was not an architect of the war itself. he was the

and the investigation about who first revealed that valerie plame was a c.i.a. undercover agent. a c.i.a. found that libby on tructed justice and lied under oath. president bush repeatedly dodged a question about his pardon. >> i felt the punishment was severe. so i made a decision that would commute his punishment. a serious fine and probation. as to the future, i rule nothing in and nothing out. chris: so why did bush refuse to go further and issue a pardon? time magazine had a advisor, i'm sure president bush felt there was a coverup. >> bush felt scooter libby bunt remorseful. that was important to bush. bush did an own investigating. he did an own investigating. decided that he lied to the grand jury. he felt that was completely unacceptable. and they laid that on there on purpose. and finally as this source suggested, i think there was some concern that perhaps whatever they question they would probe, they really weren't sure if they were protecting each other. chris: they were both part of the coverup. >> this is maybe the most important partnership. this is the only time

any potential criminal exposure he would have. >> doesn't that cry out for what they did in the valerie plame case, where they appointed a special prosecutor? never mind what congress does with committees that are investigating. isn't there a burden on eric holder the attorney general to go ahead and name a special prosecutor to review some of those issues? >> exactly. i think that's one of the reasons we see blair suggesting that there was no need to brief here. there's great concern in the intelligence community now about the prospect of more intrusion, particularly a special prosecutor. there's one already acting, looking at the destruction of tapes, of torture sessions that went on. there's a likelihood as "newsweek" and i and others have reported of a second special prosecutor being appointed, and this is a third opportunity for a special prosecutor. the intelligence community wants to shut that down. but i think congress' concern, really would not be, at the end of the day, served by a special prosecutor. congress wouldn't learn everything probably the justice department investigator le

part of that effort to push back included identifying valerie plame as wilson's husband. and that is documented in notes that fitzgerald found in the vice president's office and in libby's office. so that organized push by several people is now very well known. so his investigation wanted uncovered that this was going on on a broader level, then continued to try and find what the original genesis of it was. was it only armitage who had done it on his own or was armitage acting as part of a larger, more organized effort, perhaps directed from the highest levels of the white house? this is what fitzgerald said in the testimony. so that was always fitzgerald' justification for continuing after he found out that armitage himself had been the direct leak for novak. why did we continue covering it in the media and why did the prosecutor continue going? this really was a case as the prosecutor described it of potential criminal acts. there's a law against the disclosure of a covert case officer's identity. and that this was something that had gone on at the high yefl levels of t

it was dick cheney who told scooter libby that valerie plame worked for the counter proliferation division at the cia. >> that's what "time" reports today. >> we reported that in our book, too. there's a lot of overlap. that's not a new fact, that cheney was the one who told scooter libby where she worked and earlier scooter libby had from the state department and cia on valerie wilson. then when the investigators come along a couple months later, he says, i heard it from tim russert. which is his line, and why he was convicted, he said he completely forgot that dick cheney ever talked to him about this and then when he heard it from tim russert, it was like he was learning it for the first time. a jury listened to him say that. they said that's baloney. that's why he was convicted. >> let's talk about where this ends right now. the president said no to him. >> three times. >> the president said no. do you have a sense from your reporting that the president believed that scooter libby and the vice president were in cahoots on trying to out valerie wilson as a cia agent as part of the effor

classified information, even though rove and cheney were at the center of leaking the covert operative valerie plame's identity. alberto gonzalez also not denying mr. panetta's story, but claiming he can't talk about it because it's classified. circumspect now after the bush justice had found out that he had handled highly classified documents. but fourth, miss cheney, and most obscenely, you kept us safe for eight years? you let 3,000 people die. your father delayed his first long-requested meeting about al qaeda, wait until september 10th. your president told the cia agent who tried to warn him about al qaeda on august 6th that he was just covering his ass, you know, lying. let's bring in msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson, also pulitzer prize winning columnist of "the washington post." eugene, good evening. >> evening, keith. >> the right wing is now saying the cia is lying when it lied because the cia never lies? >> this is like one of those logic puzzles. you know, i am lying now, but you can't be lying, you must be telling the truth. it's a ridiculous position, i think, that is being taken

in the role played by the vice president in the uncovering of the identity of that cia agent, valerie plamewhole question as to what he does and how much of a renegade he truly was. did he have any tether on him? did the president ever come in and say, what are you up to today? what do you have for me? >> that's only a question that george bush can answer. because it was -- >> well, have you ever seen the white house layout on the west wing? they're about, what, 20, 30 feet apart from each other. if the president wanted to walk around the corner to the office across, he could have asked. you're saying he didn't ask. >> you know, what took place between the two of them nobody has divined. clearly, as lawrence just pointed out, there was tension at times between bush and cheney, we know that. but we also know that cheney played an extraordinary role throughout the bush presidency, particularly on intelligence matters. he fancied himself the expert in the white house -- >> he was the intelligence chief. the scary thing is he never felt the need to respond to public inquiry. he never answered q

he has a long history of winning big verdict, made his name in the s and l scandal, represented valerie plame. so you know, clearly there was publicity attended to this. whether that's part of an overall strategy, you be the judge. >> what do you think the feds are think sng. >> i think it's probably expected. they have $170 billion forfeiture order. they've already attached anyone could conceivably think is part of the fraud. >> what i mean is, what do you think they are thinking about walking in and talking to bernie the prison? >> don't know. anybody can do it if they get a meeting and clearly madoff had the incentive to protect his wife and brother and sons who have been sued here -- >> i'm sure they're thrilled to be insulted about the questioning ability of him. >> crazy. >> thank you. great stuff. see you later. >> up next, people using blackberr blackberrys, trying to stay involved. multitasking, a and productive or rude? the algae are very beautiful. they come in blue or red, golden, green. algae could be converted into biofuels... that we could someday run our cars on. in using alga

. >> when he was originally charged with leaking valerie plame's name. he did not do that.richard armitaged admitted he dd that. the premise of the entire legal action against him was unfounded. >> the truth is always a mess. >> he contends, of course, he didn't -- >> well, he was convicted. he was convicted by a jury right here in the nation's capital. already, guys. riveting article, by the way, a very good cover story in "time" magazine on the final days of the bush presidency. >>> angelina jolie is on a new mission right now in iraq. the actress sending an urgent message in an exclusive interview with cnn. >>> and michelle obama's mom spills the beans about life in the white house. >>> and new evidence of rampant corruption in the state of new jersey. [ new age music plays ] now the colors of life can last a lifetime. valspar -- the beauty goes on. >>> on our political ticker, a new glimpse inside the obama white house from the first mother-in-law. michelle obama's mom, marian robinson, says she's living the good life at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. she opened up after rea