and i believe that it had nothing to do with valerie plame. but i believe that there was a resentment on my position on israel and on the u.s. intervention in iraq. >> let's stop for a moment about the israel thing. you're jewish, but converted to catholicism. and what is your position on israel? >> i am for israel. i'm for the preservation of israel. but i believe their policy has been dangerous and self-destructive, and my name has appeared in hundreds of columns which have been critical of israeli policy. almost all those columns were written by rowland evans, but my name appeared on them. i supported him since he retired. and, of course, rowlie has passed away. but i think it is not an anti-israeli position. i was just in israel this year talking to journalists and people who share my opinion that they should take a more forthcoming position on a negotiated settlement. so, it's just a difference in opinion. but the many jewish-americans, who are really more aggressive and unrelenting than israelis, have been critical of me, including some

joining me is valerie plame, former cia covert operative. good day to you. what did you learn from today's report? >> good day to you as well. happy to be here. this is a huge day in our history. as vice president biden just said, how important it is to let the world know that we're looking at the -- through this report, what we did that was so wrong, so off from our values we hold dear and it's never going to happen again. >> let me read to you some of this rebuttal from former cia directors. they're describing the program, disagreeing with the findings in this report and saying it led to the capture of senior al qaeda operatives, removing them from the battlefield, disrupted terror plots and added to what we knew about al qaeda as an organization. but not really digging into the details that are so exhaustively put forth here, that suggests many of those types of claims we've heard for years to justify these programs were highly exaggerated and misleading. what do you make of that back and forth today? >> notice that those that are defending the use of tor

joining me now is valerie plame and michael hirsch, interviewed michael hayden for his latest police for politico magazine. valerie, i noticed one thing about everyone who is trying to defend the program will not mention the specifics described in the report, especially all the rectal hydration. not one of them makes a single rectal reference when they're defending all of this. >>> hi lawrence, thank you for having me. under any common understanding of what torture is, it shows new that report. but here's another way of looking at it. if any of those techniques were used on u.s. military men and women overseas, the cry about torture against americans would be deafening. clearly, what vice president cheney is doing is defending his legacy, hoping if he puts it out there enough, it will be true. >> talk about general hayden. >> he has defended the program. he is miffed, though, because he came in in 2006 after the program had been discontinued. we have to remember as a coun y country, these programs were not acceptable. water boarding was discontinued. by implication, there was agreemen

release of the cia torture report, including reactions from former cia operative valerie plame. let's go to the justice department where attorney general eric holder is rolling out new guidelines. the policy five years in the making bans profiling based on gender, national origin, religion, sexual orientation and gender identity by several agencies. attorney general eric holder talked about the new guidelines earlier today. >> when you look at this whole question of racial profiling, as i said in the statement we have released, it can be misguided. it can be, i think, ineffective. given the limited resources that we have given the opponents we face certainly here and overseas, we can't afford to profile, to do law enforcement on the basis of stereotypes. >> nbc justice department pete williams joins me now. is this a total ban, if not, who's in and who's out in terms of federal agencies? >> it's not a total ban any more than the racial profiling ban that the attorney general was talking about was either. of course, racial profiling was banned in 2003. this will not apply to fede