it is probably like pullback on valuation.oline: you are going to get your deal done if you're committed. are you having to reduce what you previously put on? >> the discussion with investors is more difficult, they are getting more selective and they are tough on valuation. that has been true the last few months. there are aspects that still do well. if you are a tech company, health care is doing extremely well. some sectors within consumer like olaplex haircare products have done well. caroline: olaplex went public? i was too busy using it in my hair. romaine: i had never heard of them and now i see it everywhere. sonali: they are everywhere. >> they are saying hair is a revolution. you are expressing yourself and there is so much you can do. moisturizers, romaine: how is wework doing? >> they are still going through a deal. and the valuation has come down. romaine: they were a revolution, now it is hair. caroline: now it is where people go to work. crystal tse, always fun. romaine: we need a whole 30 minutes of just her on

you get bang for lack of clarity for the valuation snap was trading at and valuation of doubt at what facebook is trading at google is probably lower as well i haven't looked the setup in earnings, i was apprehensive on facebook given the sell-off and subsequent bounce i am clearer now we will see monday night and you could start by roasting me >> let's get your take, jared, on snap? >> i agree with what everyone is saying apple privacy change clearly impacted the business more than expected snap has been beating revenue by about 10%. here we walked into something not in line, but a straight out miss revenue of about 57% year on year which is a staggering numbers, but investors were looking at something closer than 70%. underneath the surface you have the engagement trends which are positive when you look at daily active users they are ahead of the street their guidance on the conference call, coming in ahead. it is not a user problem, but goes back to the fact they are having a significant problem trying to be as effective with their ads in this world. it is not idiosyncratic to snap

i bought it this morning primarily it's on valuation. enterprise value to ebitda is like a 3 and change that's a really, really low number for them. it's a low number for anyone i know the macro is, oh, nike's going direct to consumer and that's going to hurt foot locker and all the other precissures, amazon and whoever else. that is all true that's why it trades at the valuation it does. when you back out the debt, because they have this -- there's a new accounting rule a couple of years ago. all your leases you have to put on as debt on your balance sheet. back that all off, as you should, and they've got a lot of cash the enterprise value is very, very cheap the last thing is goat, and i'm sure you're family with, besides being greatest of all time, it's a shoe business. they own a significant stake there was a new round of financing in june and july that was much higher than their cost. i think we'll see an ipo or a spac or something on goat at a much higher valuation than that. it's a trade, not investment but i really like it >> it

the unfilled gap -- the trend line is not random, not valuation or gdp the market filled the gap, went to the down trend line and now will it be able to push on we have a head and shoulders bottom i think the september highs will not be easily exceeded >> wow so we might have seen the best for the rest of the year carter, good to see you. thank you so much. >> dan, do you agree >> carter redefines right in front of us. that's pretty specific it may not be random if the market was still open, i think it would still be raising higher it feels like that was the sort of reversal day that a lot of bulls needed to feel microsoft is less than 1% from its all time highs a lot of constructive charts if we are saying a lot of the news is discounted in the last five months or six weeks price action, then it leaves you to be left bearish if we are going to digest fundamental news better and the chart is constructive, that's how i feel about it. i would like him to be right during the earning season the tide can change quickly. we talked about banks for the last week and a half yesterday they looke

they are scary and people talk about valuation.stock making a new all-time high i think that that's what will happen again >>> coming up, ups posting better than expected results we will bring that tdera to your doorstep >> and lockheed martin, tanking today. how they are trading this one. give you the power of sd-wan and advanced security integrated on our activecore platform so you can control your network from anywhere, anytime. it's network management redefined. every day in business is a big day. we'll keep you ready for what's next. comcast business powering possibilities. ♪ ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ (vo) this is more than just a building. tit's billion-dollar views.. perfectly located. an inspiration. and enough space to start an empire. loopnet. the most popular place to find a space. >>> welcome back to "fast money. check out shares of ups, the shipping giant hitting an all-time high. thanks

it shouldn't matter to the valuation, it mattered to the stock.s soon as you got to that split was effective, the fever broke that was when faang and other mega cap growth fell apart for a month to two months. that was the decline then s&p says it's going to add it to the index, the s&p 500 index. it goes on another run and peaks right at here at 6:75 the moment it got into the s&p 500 and also backed off we had the other run the early part of the year and that actually worked for a while, but we actually were under water if you bought it through the s&p 500 index for a lot of this year now we're on another one of these sprints. it's not just about hertz ordering 100,000 cars. it's about everything. it's technical momentum. it's the fact that you had a good quarter it's the fact you have people on the street putting $1,200 price targeting on it and the fact that there's stupendous amount of money placed into short-term call options in this stock as of the last couple of day helping to shoot it high so it's self re-enforcing in the very short-term,

at 35 times forward earnings its valuation is well above what its average has been over the course of the last ten years. throughout the ten years the street has obviously had a good opportunity to digest similar ratesof growth over those periods of time. if you're inclined to essentially bet against the stock as carter's charting suggests one might, it becomes difficult. at a 2750 shorting it is not a feasible option in many cases. buying an outright put option and i think the trade going into earnings is to look to sell an up side call spread. right now the options call spread is implying a move of 4%. that's in line and when you're selling a call spread, you're trying to balance the risk and reward obviously selling a further out of the money call spread gives you higher probability of success but the amount of premium you collect is less. now the stock did move down close to $90 by the end of the day today. i was looking just at the close at the 2850, 2870 call spread that expires in november you could collect a little over $6 for that 20 wide call spread. that's kind of that swee

i thought income, it's, it's, it's a valuation at which is very strange. it, it implies that somehow we're, we're merely renting the valuations of the things better than that for which we bear to some responsibility and we're renting them from the government and they can change the rents at any time. this is very dangerous for the whole idea of, of, of entrepreneurship and an investment. and like a say, it's a, it really is without precedent, this is not a tax on income. mm hm. take it as income it gets taxed. this is a tax on valuation of assets, of which he bear some responsibility that you're not actually selling to to become liquid assets. so like i said, this is, this is, this is, i'm sorry to say it, but it's, it's just, it's inconsistent with anything we've ever thought about in terms of property ownership and, and, and, and entrepreneurship and, and freedom in enterprise. it's a radical proposal. and congress are great, i will give you the final word. i have 30 seconds left, but i want you to push back at that last thing because i know you got a st

it's just just just a pure valuation. so like, like i say, this is not really the way we've ever done taxation in this country. basically ever . and some people are speculating that wouldn't even survive a constitutional test. i like it's not even consistent with the 16th amendment. so i don't, i don't understand where this comes from. what i do not understand where it's coming from, where you've got a gang of lawmakers right now just desperately looking for money wherever they can find it, to devour it, to fund their preposterous increases. and that's to say they fueled over the last year. so we've, we really do have a kind of predatory state on the loose right now, and it's going to cause a capital flight and confuse ceos and, and make a mass of, of market valuations. very dangerous proposal. and actually i don't, i think we've done a lot of crazy things or the last 20 months. i don't sit risk and say it's, i don't think, i don't think it's gonna pass for congressman grace. and i want to give you a chance to respond to

it's a valuation issue for a company that has 26% gross margins on the out year. a returning revenue name for me i think it is a must-own long-term. i am not sure you have to buy it here >> guy, are you off the phone? >> i don't know what is going on there is a ghost in the machine killing me maybe they are knocking me out of the box for you armchair technicians, there is a bit of a double top here you need to break it out on the upside i would rather wait on earnings in november. i think dan makes a good point >> ways to make a payment base you could go papal which is less than half the valuation of square at this point >> it's really -- square has done extraordinary things but it is all about valuation which is to dan's point they want to be your bank, small business lender, send cash to people, and yet they have a multiple that doesn't reflect any kind of those businesses i love the payment space but i don't love the valuation >>> jim cramer, named three other names. to find out go to the website or point your phone to the qr code. >>> we are watching shares of

>> it doesn't need to get a tesla valuation to have it be a good due from here what is the tesla valuation at that time if gm does all of the things that gm says it can do. tesla is not going to have at that 46% better market share than gm at that time if gm can do what it says. i agree with kim gm is a show me story. even when they show me the numbers right now and still trades at a low multiple the idea we are going to jump on and get excited about 2030 is hard to fathom because even right now when they put up good numbers, i feel like it doesn't get so much respect. i am with tim, bullish, long they have been telegraphing this, but i thought those were good numbers we will see. i think new cars -- i am interested in how the lyric does which is coming out in 2022. >> does your position change much now that gm has put out targets for 2030 could you put out targets for 2030 it's a long ways off is the point. >> i could i will be 97 i am sure i will have a name tag. the short answer is absolutely not. let's give them the benefit of the down karen mentioned the show-me story. they should mov

we put money into a $7 billion valuation.tbank is giving them money at 40 billion what really changed other than liquidity? not much and that's one example of probably a thousand do you worry that we've basically exported a bubble from the nasdaq into the private markets and what will be the fallout when that inevitably comes to an end? >> i mean, josh, thanks for the question and number one on valuations we started the program by me saying there is no doubt we are underestimating the distortion that low interest rates and this amount of liquidity in a post-covid world are having on multiples across the spectrum. everything is higher priced then it would have been if rates weren't at zero and we didn't have this amount of liquidity. both as a venture investor and a private market investor i'm just saying you have to have a balanced approach. you to leave open the possibility that we're going have a correction and manage the portfolio so that you can durably continue to invest through that cycle secondly, when it comes to an a

but its valuation is well above what its average has been over the course of the last ten years.nd, of course, throughout those ten years, the street has had a good opportunity to digest similar rates of growth over those periods of time. so if you're inclined to essentially bet against the stock as carter's charting suggests one might, it becomes very difficult, right. because at a $2,750 share price, shorting it is probably not a feasible action in many cases. buying an outright option could be expensive here. so i think it is look to sell on upside the options market is implying a move of about 4% that's in line with the eight quarter average. when you are selling a call spread you are trying to balance the risk and reward. so obviously, selling further out of the money call spread gives you a higher probability of success but the amount of premium you collect is less. the stock did move down close to $90 by the end of the day. i was looking at the close at 2850, 2870 call spread that expires in november. you could collect a little over $6 for that. $20 wide call spread that's

no, it's not higher valuation and longer term gross.s interesting in that the s&p 500 down, growth down. draftkings have been beat up and have bucked the trend and gone higher i think investors are looking forward to the potential >> tim, would you buy one of these on line gaming stocks? >> in the short-term mccow is my investment might investment is on line gaming states are coming online more coming. it's an investment for the future >> speaking of sports gaming, don't catch a documentary tonight. we will take you inside the explosion of online gaming and sports betting for some it has been a wild ride >> last year the tampa bay rays had a miraculous world series run and i had a 25/1 bet to win. i became a rays fan. i bought a hat and would have bought a jersey if they won. >> he sees the run firsthand at the company headquarters in boston this is his scoreboard of real time engagement. >> in the last minute there were 462 bets made on our sportsbook. it keeps on updating pre-super bowl we will get to tens of thousands per minute >> t

it doesn't justify the valuation. but significant. and i'll say again, i think the stock is going to test that all-time high of $900, sometimes before earnings at the end of the month of october the negative news cycle seems to be well in its rearview mirror i think the catalysts for it to go higher are there in front of us >> no pun intended if you could ask mary barra about the supply chain and production cuts because of shortages, what would you ask her? doesn't this make your head scratch when i hear tesla delivering record numbers of cars when gm and ford are struggling to keep up? >> it does and it certainly is a case where if you look at the price performance of the automakers and gm, ford down on a three-month basis, tesla, while only up 9% year to date, is off 40% from may lows. the chart looks interesting, we talked about how it outperformed even high multiple tech days when they sold off in gm's case, i do think gm has transitioned some of their production line. some of these, you know, interactive chips and some of the aut

>> yeah, so, i mean, obviously one of the side effects of the stock's weakness has been that the valuationng a look at price to earnings -- is getting down to low levels in fact it's trading a little over 14 times right now, getting close to 10 year lows. just because the pe of a stock is low doesn't necessarily mean it's a great time to buy it. sometimes that can be indicative, obviously in a cyclical that you're possibly near a top or an anticipated top in the cycle but just taking a look at a 10-year history of amgen and the range of valuations that it has traded at over time. just consider the following facts. over any 60 or 90-day holding period for the last ten years, your returns would have been a little over 2% and 3% respectively and you would have been up about 60 to 63% of the time however, if you only purchased the stock when the valuation was between 14 and 15 times earning, that calculus change is pretty dramatic those 60 and 90 day return figures actually look closer to 6% and change and 7.5% and are profitable nearly 80% of the time when you look at that, one of the things

but its valuation is well above what its average has been over the course of the last ten years. throughout those the street has had a good opportunity to digest similar rates of growth over those periods of time. if you are inclined to essentially bet against the stock as carter's charting suggests one might, it becomes difficult. shorting it is probably not a fea feasible action in many cases. so i think it is look to sell on upside the options market is implying a move of about 4% when you are selling a call spread you are trying to balance the risk and reward. further out gives you a higher probability of success but the amount of premium is less. the stock did move down close to $90 by the end of the day. i was looking at the close at the call spread that expires in november you could collect a little over $6 for that. that sweet spot we are looking to sell, 30 delta-ish. you would be risking considerably less than if you sold the stock short you would have more of a probability of success if you bought puts. i think this is the way going into earnings. >> tony? >> when you

emily: rivian's event -- valuation, does that stand up?on for a pre-revenue company was -- anyway, but it is all about amazon's investment. emily: great in-depth piece on rivian and their relationship with amazon. that doesn't this edition of bloomberg technology. tune in tomorrow. we are joined by aaron levie and cisco ceo chuck robbins. i am emily chang. this is bloomberg. ♪ haidi: welcome to daybreak australia, i am haidi stroud-watts in sydney. sophie: i'm in hong kong. shery: i'm shery ahn. republicans and democrats finding a way to end the debt impasse. haidi:

it is valuation. we are not negative on the technology itself. for the mrna platform to have other indications other than covid. but the valuation, 5 million forever with moderna, less than pfizer the ability to use annual boosters for the foreseeable future we think probably isn't a realistic scenario but that's what the value tells you. >> meg hinted at the commercial battle between they companies to be the booster of choice how important is that to the company? >> we haven't even talked about johnson & johnson, novavax or others, the ability to take share going forward is going to be important i would say the two mrna vaccines are more alike than different. the moderna vaccine did not typically hit the end point and pfizer's did although i do expect the fda and recommendations for boosters for at-risk people to not really differentiate between the two. but it is clear going forward from a commercial perspective, the booster is going to be key >> getting it to this $5 billion of perpetual sales figure doesn't add up i wanted to ask you about th

emily: rivian's event -- valuation, does that stand up?on for a pre-revenue company was -- anyway, but it is all about amazon's investment. emily: great in-depth piece on rivian and their relationship with amazon. that doesn't this edition of bloomberg technology. tune in tomorrow. we are joined by aaron levie and cisco ceo chuck robbins. i am emily chang. this is bloomberg. ♪ baaam. internet that doesn't miss a beat. that's cute, but my internet streams to my ride. adorable, but does yours block malware? nope. -it crushes it. pshh, mine's so fast, no one can catch me. big whoop! mine gives me a 4k streaming box. -for free! that's because you all have the same internet. xfinity xfi. so powerful, it keeps one-upping itself. can your internet do that? >> the following is a paid program. the opinions and views expressed do not reflect those of bloomberg lp, its affiliates, or its employees. announcer: the following is a paid presentation furnished by rare collectibles tv, llc. kim: in a letter dated back to december 27, 1904 to the secretary

you have valuations roughly 38 times, a schiller p/e ratio.-looking returns are likely to dissipate. that is where we are in the u.s. value relative to growth looks terrific, but value in the u.s. merely looks moderately attractive and growth, very overextended. in emerging markets, the market itself is less than half as expensive as the u.s. market and value is quite drastically cheaper than the broad market, which means that emerging markets value represented extraordinary opportunity. the same can be said about u.k. value. dividend yields are nearly twice that of the u.s. and in addition to that, the spread is very wide. even if there is no mean reversion, even if value remains as cheap as it is today forever, you are looking at value beating growth by 2% to 3% a year. dani: you mentioned the bubble of tech. there are many tech balls who would disagree with that -- tech bulls who would disagree with that. how would you characterize the frothiness of tech stocks? what are those supporters of the sector getting wrong? rob: it is interesting.

to go in the market, david, where i don't want to be in technology, i don't want to be in high valuations i don't necessarily want to be in energy. maybe i'm a little nervous about financials so i'm ruling a lot of things out. is there anywhere i can go to, quote, unquote, protect myself >> sure. i will give you a sector answer even though we're not top-down investors. we are bottom-up pickers, and as you know biassed towards dividend growth. the one sector that is never the worst performing and never the best performing but i think always is in the middle ground of good fundamentals, relatively low valuations compared to other sectors is consumer staples. it also happens to be extremely noncyclical. people still buy laundry detergent, diapers, paper towels, a lot of the consumer food products regardless of economic activity. so if that's the setup, you know, and the question, consumer staples are always that kind of, you know, not too hot, not too cold type of place to be there happens to be great dividend growing names when you look at pepsi, proctor & gamble, kimberly-clark, all names

valuation only one part of an investment thesis.ample being artificial intelligence it's a report that china is considering making more data available to search engines which analysts say could bode well for baidu >> appreciate that how many mornings did we walk into the office to see a slew of weird regulatory crackdown headlines. you p tthink this is over >> many mornings no, i don't think it's over. i don't think that was ever the idea they were smart. they leveraged technology but they have their own culture and that's how they are going to proceed. i think that's going to be reflected in regulatory policy going forward. you're going to have some benefit from government investment and areas they think are important. it means less ennoi vags that will be with us for a long time i think you'll have challenges on even the wap we get exposure to certain chinese companies i think about the variable interest entity structure. alibaba is a structure like that what happens when you're no longer able to get exposure. in terms of what we'

this is an $85 stock i look from a valuation standpoint for pintrest.a forward pe of about 40 when i look at this company i think it would make -- first i think it would make a good match, but second, i think they are getting it for the right price. across the industries, i think the price they would be paying makes sense going forward for paypal but we will see. there are a lot of things that would have to go right we saw option paper. they were dead on as far as the timing of this thing as far as the announcement but we have to see when it will happen if it happens in november, i think it will be a price higher than rear now. >> tim, you are grimacing and shaking your head. >> i am thrilled and happy pete is okay. we were worried sick and glad things are better. i don't think this is a cheap acquisition at 13 times sale and not a creative deal for paypal who is not cheap either. with their overpriced currency, i think they could be doing other things they are laser focused on acquisition. i think this would be their largest acquisition. i like dan's i

jenny doesn't own microsoft and she prefers facebook on a valuation basis. i'll give you the fact that facebook's cheaper than microsoft right now, but is that the only thing that you look at when deciding between these two businesses >> no. not at all in fact you know the reason is much bigger than that. facebook, because of those five faangs, it had when we started investing there it had the largest, most sustainable earnings growth coupled with a really strong story that would suggest that that earnings growth would sustain and the right valuation for u s, and i always say the valuation in concert with the story, but because we always have an eye on free cash flow that's one of our u hurdles and i was looking to the left to figure on the exactly what facebook is up year to date, but i didn't get it. >> not as much as microsoft and i'll save you from trying to figure that out. >> no, it's not. it's 16% >> microsoft's up 43% year to date, just so we have all of the numbers in front of us >> here's the thing. i want to waugz peocaution peopt fomo you do not

bear in mind, i was saying that it was historical valuation multiple that would put the stock aroundbucks a share, i'm sort of targeting that on the downside that put spread would cost a little over 5, $5.15, mid- to mid, when i was looking at i earlier today, very close to 25% of the distance between the strikes which when we're looking at debit spreads, and this one is very tight, very close to at the money, the stock was under 116 bucks at the close, and we own the 115 put strike here. i think this is the way that you can make a bearish bet look, obviously if stocks get hit in between now and year's end, that would affect this. if we see rates rise, that of course is a fundamental headwind potentially for them i think there are a lot of reasons why it would be hard to believe they're going to go back to the prior highs and we want to take advantage, though, o options to essentially make a downside bid on the name >> tony, what's your take on the trade? >> yeah, so i agree with both. both on the technicals and the fundamentals if you look at the chart, we've seen the broken trend l

plus we like the valuation it's a little expensive and we like the valuation at these levels plus the profitability and once again, this is a hold for us >> doc, i'll give you the microsoft because it's no slouch, obviously. i said the stock hit a new high. it's up 40% year to date if pete were here he'd be banging the table and tell you why microsoft is so great and satya nadella would be, too. give me the read here and we'll move on to another story >> scott, one of the read-throughs is most of what they deliver, they deliver by zeros and ones and that is they're using the internet whether they're powering it with azure or whether they're delivering their software via the internet that's the great part of their business and they also have the hardware side of their business. that's what i'm going to be interested in, scott because if they start saying negative things about how supply is so constrained that they can't get enough product out there, that might be a lead-in to what apple who delivers far more product as fares those i phones, macs, ipads and the like all of that, i think

things like that, things with long-term leases, valuations are not bad. i am no stock expert, but you talk about the fangs. there's a lot of high valuation. that is why they are saying you have to be selective. like you said, yesterday was terrible, today we are back. i saw some reporting from the virtual conference today. a lot of people saying it is time to start selling a little. alix: in the note, i wonder what the implication of this is. higher inflation but real rates will stay negative what does the fed do with that? liz: part of the thesis is that this will happen because the fed is boxed in any sense. even though the fed is saying they may start to taper later, you have some officials saying be good have rate hikes as early as late next year. you hear this a lot of places. the fed and a lot of central banks have no choice because we have this huge debt and deficit, even though they are independent from the treasury. if you raise rates too fast, get out of your bond buying too quickly, start to think about reducing your balance sheet, you will cre

hannah: you have to be mindful of valuations.believe that parts of the markets that have exposed and stretch valuations such as small-cap tech, you can look at the biggest companies in europe, asml, five years forward it is still on a 25 forward price ratio. we want to be exposed to parts of the market that have sustainable secular growth trends, sustainable earnings we can predict going forward and we -- and more reasonable valuations we can help protect on the downside and also parts of the market that are overvalued. alix: what you do with financials in that case? with expectations the highest since 2015, financials and insurers have not rallied to the same extent. you can make the argument they are more insulated. what you do with them? hannah: we had a move in financials, especially since the vaccine news came out last october. to be honest, we completely avoid them altogether. we do not like the detriment on the balance sheet. we tried to avoid that and invest in companies that have cleaner balance sheets and the growth in

where's the valuation multiple it's still obviously grown into itself but t's still cheaper than othermorgan stanley. you could say that's a big gap but now morgan stanley with the volatility of the business is going to get fully up to a pure wealth management multiple and that's the holy grail. not as dominant in terms of the size or the piece of the pie as morgan stanley and not getting there so i think it gives stability to the stock and to the story. although that is an area of the quarter not as stellar relative to expectations. >> so the 10-year yield at 1.51. everyone assumes that rates will rise do rates have to rise for the banks to work? >> well they do for certain ones i think that bank of america is levered to the yield curve and why it did so well and saw the operating leverage because the rates up from 112 at the lows. and they were at 151 so you get the operating leverage there and happened to deliver and ux cute across the both two fantastic reports between morgan stanley and bank of america. bank of america is more rate sensitive and why they bought. they didn't want t

that, one of the things you do get when you try to buy a stock at the lower end of its historic valuationgive yourself a downside buffer. perhaps you are getting to a level where the stock can't have a whole lot more damage done but bearing in mind there could be a signal, particularly about half the market multiple, you can still mitigate your risk i was looking to december at the call spread. when i was looking at it earlier, you could spend about $6.95. net-net you will spend about 5.75 or so to put this trade on. the stock was trading just under 2.07 as of close so the extrinsic premium is only about 1.5% of the current stock price. essentially that's the premium you are paying to have insurance below the long call strike that also is going to reduce how much the stock needs to rise before you see profit. now the company is going to be reporting on tuesday if we see some disappointment or good news, that's likely when we are going to see it. i think this is a way we could take advantage of the fact that options premiums are surprisingly lowest specially the way the stock moved the las

i think amgen is extraordinarily val yunel and cheap at these levels in terms of valuations. if gilead would stop going lower for a day, i think you will get value in ibb. >>> our next guest - >> could i add one thing >> yeah, yeah, karen, go ahead. >> sorry some part of the biotech, the smaller biotech space, used to be sort of the gambling part, right, huge risk, huge rewards, and i think that kind of money has actually migrated to other areas. so that would have been the marginal buyer here. i think they are gone now. in meme stocks or bitcoin or somewhere else >> that's an interesting point >>> the next success talking about the skid games let's bring in gerald homes, manager director of health care equities at oppenheimer. jared, what's with the underperformance snshlgts i think you guys nailed it so many facets and reasons for the underperformance i look at it very sim policically. you touched on many of the points earlier so many asset classes and industry groups are trade to go close to all-time highs. the tech trade, consumer discretionary trade, trurn to normal trad

and in terms of the valuation, tyler, i mean, that's the big conundrum not only for investors, but for analysts as well if you are an investor and you are bullish on tesla, you do not look at this company as simply an automaker you look at it as an energy play w energy storage, with solar whether it is also a company that down the road, you know, does it continue to grow in terms of autonomous vehicle technology that's the great idea here if you believe in that, full self driving technology -- there are people who pay a subscription for full self driving technology even though these vehicles are not autonomous the idea that they are autonomous, that is the hope down the road. if they are, and if you find swrb who is willing to pay that on a monthly basis you say this is it, this is everything i need for the future that's where you look at the revenues potentially growing incredible amounts that is the idea behind saying i think this stock can go far higher adam jonah saying it will go to 1200 he's not valuing this company as a traditional automaker. he sees it as far more. >> look at w

is where the big -- where the air is mostly underneath the market in the valuations so i don't gothink is about something happening but that's why it hits the most. not yields yields did nothing on a net basis. doesn't help the facebook new just that's an exacerbating factor but not driving facebook down 3% for example. >> thank you so much for that. facebook down sharply today about 5% as things stand let's get to the story on that front. the move comes as frances ha 2k3wu -- haug en revealed herself as the whistle-blower. >> facebook demonstrated they cannot act independently facebook over and over again shows it chooses profit over safety subsidizing, paying profits with the safety i hope this has a big enough impact on the world they get the fortitude and the motivation to go put those regulations into place. that's my hope. >> both facebook's vp of content policy appeared on cnbc pushing back on the accusations. >> if we were a company who didn't care about safety, about trying to prioritize profit over safety we would n't do this research the point is understanding how to do bett

i think valuations are high but not unreasonably so. you know, i think the s&p 500 is selling at roughly 20 times forward earnings the historic average is 16 on the other hand, valuations are heavily influenced by interest rates we have the lowest interest rates we've ever seen. it wouldn't be silly to have the highest valuations we've ever seen and we don't. so i think it's okay it's viable. >> we always hear buy low, sell high but you can also here buy higher if you're bullish equities on a macro level, does that mean you're making a call that interest rates are going to be low, maybe not forever, but for much longer than many people may think? >> well, number one, i'm bullish on the economy and i think that stocks won't crap out as long as we have economic growth. number one and number two -- >> do you think we will crap out so to speak? >> eventually. that's why we have cycles. the market does well then it does too well then it gets too high then it corrects. that's the nature of cycles. >> where are we in that cycle? >> well, the m

if you look at the last five years look at the valuation on a forward price to earning ratio bases thatay what they expect the price to be and expectation wise versus the future it trades at a ratio of about 21 times, you can see that, just about in line with the s&p 500 meanwhile, over the last five years, that white line typically trades at a higher level than the orange one they're trading together right now, it might apply that there could be a bit of a valuation discount relative to the s&p over the last five years at least. so keep an eye on the valuations in the communications services >> you know they're going to be in focus today, too. >>> we move to energy and the focus on natural gas and the global energy crunch prices popping again this week adding to its already 120 points percentage gain since january. a number of stocks riding high, including cnx resources major player with operations in marcellus and ewe cuss shale prices and authorizing a 1 billion share buyback. joining us to talk about this cnx resources president and ceo nicholas delius. thank you for being with us.

it pressures valuations. and wee keep pointing out, facebook, a market multiple right now.here's no premium left to be drained out. it can obviously get cheaper but i do think, you know, some of that adjustment has happened. no doubt about it, if the incremental dollar is going towards the higher rate plays. and in fact it becomes another story of reacceleration, it might get sidelined again. >> all right mike santoli, thank you. >>> and one name getting a big boost this morning is square jeffries up to a buy today called the stock a must-own over the long term, points specifically to the dominance of its cash option. price target up to 300 even with a bear case of 355 hmm. that seems odd a bear case of 355 joining us now the analyst behind that and to explain it all, trevor williams of jeffries i'm sure i got something wrong in there, trevor that doesn't sound like a bear case yeah, bull case, 355 >> i think, yeah >> so, tell me how you view cash app strength it seems generational strength depending on what decade somebody was born in, they're using paypal or venmo or cash

david: there is still some skepticism about the valuation.e pointing out yesterday, tesla is the first noninvestment grade company to reach a $1 trillion valuation, so you have to wonder whether eventually it is going to follow netflix and get that investment grade rating. that is something down the line. we know the auto business is capital-intensive, so that is the challenge tesla faces going forward. tom: jon from england emails in. ask david, do you call it alphabet or google? jonathan: there we go. [laughter] david: i call it both. google owner alphabet. tom: facebook is going to do this? they are going to change their name? david: we will see how that one goes. jonathan: it will always be facebook, tk. tom: it will always be google. david wilson, thank you so much. what does tesla do today? jonathan: i don't know. the market is the market. we have been watching this tesla story for how long? the market story is what it is. tom: i saw liz ann sonders on twitter last night had a brilliant tweet showing the rest of the market. tesla is not

i $9 billion valuation -- eight $9 billion valuation back in 2015. can see how much it has -- a $9 billion valuation back in 2015. you can see how much it has lost. the question is, how do they perform after they hit the spac and that momentum is not there as it was early this year. matt: thank you for joining us. the first of its kind, volvo has released the first fossil free steel vehicle. we will steep -- speak to the lead engineer. this is bloomberg. ♪ moving is a handful. no kidding! fortunately, xfinity makes moving easy. easy? -easy? switch your xfinity services to your new address online in about a minute. that was easy. i know, right? and even save with special offers just for movers. really? yep! so while you handle that, you can keep your internet and all those shows you love, and save money while you're at it with special offers just for movers at xfinity.com/moving. mark: i'm mark crumpton. leaving in place the strictest abortion law appeared in court papers filed today, texas attorney general ken paxton said the justice department lacke

manus: when you think about tech valuations, you say high valuation shares are an endangered -- the investoricing in growth for tech are you seriously expecting? what is the trigger to that? rob: i love the catalyst question because but whatever it is is the prize most of the market otherwise it would not be a catalyst. there are many possibilities. i love to frame things in the context of a simple question -- what is going on today that will matter in five years? current supply shocks? no. soaring debt and deficit? yes. demography? yes. these are point in the direction of value doing fine and tech reverting to fair value. i love the question what matters five years from now because it can help us clear the noise of the way. tom: that was rob arnott talking to dani burger and manus cranny, saying you are facing significant risks if you are in investment technology and you do not have an exit strategy. anna: accessible commentary on how expensive he thinks technology shares are at the moment. if he thinks it is a bubble, he recognizes that bubbles can last longer than you could rationalize. t

, who created the valuation, i don't believe the valuation was created by adam newman, it was bankers investors and folks at softbank willing to do that all of a sudden you have the valuation and thenyou go out and higher new employees and say i'm going to pay you in stock. because it's based on this valuation. >> he always seemed kind of crazy with the things he was talking about. how he was going to run in israel for office and how he was going to turn this into a lifestyle and work they seem to live on a different planet it's what is he talking about when you listened to this? some people believed it but the market at some point said the emperor was wearing no clothes and that seems to be how it all fell apart around that he's not down at the new york stock exchange yesterday, the interesting thing, they don't want him there this was like travis calnick when youuber came out. >> i wonder how history books like at travis because we all use ubers now and depending on what happens with wework -- >> it's just so much there it's interesting. >> the drama. >> it is. >> the drama. >> it i

it's what valuation is being placed on that, right?he reality is most of these enterprises will fail, for the ideas that they're going after will fail. if you look at clinical -- if you -- in fact, most of these companies are preclinical, but even clinical work, once you get through the hurdles to human testing, only one in ten drugs work most of these companies don't very have candidates for human testing. >> even in the advances, is it still a similar percentage to what it was? >> you can't argue -- i actually would say, i think it probably will go up kind of somewhat over time, but it's not going to -- in my view it will not go up by some giant factor. it's mortgage of sort of at the margin that we'll see improvements, smarter experiments being done lead to go higher probability of drugs being approved i don't think that will be a dramatic thing unfortunately drug development is really, really difficult, as we know. and we wish for all humanity that it was easier, but it's a really, really hard problem. there's a lot of enthusiasm i

but the fact is that the real reason we see the valuations where they are is because of the overhangese government policy and security measures which could restrict what some of these companies are doing. they have said as much, done as much, and it has impacted the share prices considerably. and means that many of these stocks are trading at a discount, not only to u.s. peers, but just otherwise to their really impressive growth potential. i think the answer is yes, but i think it's fair to safe there is a little bit of risk here too. >>> tony says a stock that could be ready for more down side. tony, give us a trade, give us a stock. >> i want to take a look at pay pal. it has been the e-commerce king but i think it is starting to lose its shine recently it broke below a critical level about 265. just this week it came back to retest that level as resistance and so far it's being ejected. so i do think that there's further down side. but i think the more important chart to look at is the chart relative to the technology sector you see that pay pal is trading at year-to-date lows an

but the major metric that goes into this stock for valuation is the fleet pricing.et pricing is through the roof and used car prices are through the roof, then this should be through the roof as well it is. it is not absurdly priced given the landscape we are in, but everything we heard from ford and gm, you have to believe that the chip shortage is the worst it's going to be now if that subsides, then this stock comes in because the fleet prices come in i would be selling it. i agree with carter. oddly enough, the rsi, relative strength index, is only at 71 and it's up 115% so i would be a seller along with carter. >> hertz is also ramping up and leaning on the competition where do you stand on avis >> you look at that chart and it does scare you off i look at the volatility of options and they are extremely high as well we used to look at tesla as extremely high volatility. i think steve is right i think there will be opportunities, but i would wait for a ullback. i think there will be a pullback i think that would be the opportunity. i don't think you need to cha

move and no way i can justify significant growth from here based on the valuation.ny is doing great and this is not a knock on the company. i try not to fall in love with companies and it didn't make sense for the portfolio anymore. again, and you have really strong disciplines in place. i have to maintain a big yield in the portfolio and this yield was too low and i have to look at the valuation and think what else can come from it. i sold it. it's hard. as interesting as the sale is i have not used the from seeds and this is to what josh and sarat said earlier and it's going to be a weird quarter i totally agree and we were talking about buying the dip and not buying everything now and we this think about rather than buying the gip, patience rid now for the next quarter, i have things i want to buy so it's not quite time yet, so patience will pay off and when i re-invest proceeds i'll let you know >> i heard you say something that josh will react to. i'm quoting now. unlike josh, i don't fall in love with companies. i was expecting you to jump on that. >> i love j

, we get a half-point, half multiple point on valuation.ot that big of a deal at this point given hello they are. -- given how low they are. dani: you have this u.s. private equity funds linked to pay 40 u.k. groceries, and we did not see those prices in u.k. markets. i wonder if the u.k. audience, if there is a sentiment issue. you can have international companies happy to pay valuations on u.k. markets, but the u.k. markets themselves do not see able -- do not seem able to live up to those. tim: there is no doubt there are points of reference like morrison's that are cheap. undoubtedly. you look at the overall multiples of ftse, and it looks in the tank relative to other global markets, but keep in mind more than 60% of the ftse is actually trading at 17+ times earnings. the big drag on ftse multiples are banks and energy, materials. those trade cheap multiples, they have to be big segments of the ftse. i would argue the ftse is not as cheap as what a lot of people think it is on the surface. there is outbound ftse investment as well. the