i want to bring in clinton van zandt now. again, this is a conversation that you and i have had ad nauseum on television. the intersection between guns and mental health. at this point what do we know about the shooters' mental health history? >> craig, you know you have been right on top of this story. and as you know this is somebody who number one he's a college graduate. number two, he's a law school graduate. number three, he has at least a ten year history of mental health issues domestic violence issues. this is a guy who ran for public office and who had to withdraw because he was stealing his opponent's signs from the lawn. well that sounds kind of juvenile. well so are the issues of him trashing a house that he was involved in the purchase of a sale of. his wife felt he was so threatening that she took the guns out of the house. and you know you were talking to your last guest about guns. and that is a major issue. 315 million americans. 300 million guns. but while this case took place yesterday in broken arrow, okl

i want to bring back in clint van zandt.d pick up on that conversation because i think a lot of us have the sense that our service members and also our law enforcement officers have become more of a target here on our own soil in the u.s. is that in fact the case? >> well, i think it is. and whether it is isis inspired or whether it's some other inspiration, personal or otherwise, our men and women in uniform, whether that uniform be of the military or be of law enforcement, have become targets. and what we find is a shooter like today many times will go to what he believes may be a soft but a target rich environment. in essence a recruiting center some other place where he knows he's going to find particular targets that he's looking for, but also in his mind he doesn't expect them to have the capability. especially with the weaponry we're talking that this individual may have had to fight back. it's not -- within the last couple years we recall the attack against parliament in canada where that shooter went in and he was g

so we have to counter that whatever cost we pay. >> clint van zandt, steve clemens, great to have you with us tonight. we'll have more on this story later in the show. but first, president obama makes history as his first sitting president to visit a federal prison. we'll tell you why he was there. stay tuned. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet? ♪ some neighbors are energy saving superstars. how do you become a superstar? with pg&e's free online home energy checkup. in just under 5 minutes you can see how you use energy and get quick and easy tips on how to keep your monthly bill down and your energy savings up. don't let your neighbor enjoy all the savings. take the free home energy checkup. honey, we need a new refrigerator. visit pge.com/checkup and get started today. >>> if i want

sometimes it is a gun check, a secure issue sometimes it is mental health. >> clint van zandt, to the question of what can we do about shootings like this present a unique challenge to security without metal detectors that would prevent guns from entering the theaters. it is hard to imagine how you could enhance security in movie theaters. especially when one report from an eyewitness tonight is this shooter stood up and basically in the middle of the theater, in the middle of the rows of audience seats and shot forward at people whose backs were to the shooter. this would be assassination from behind without them having any idea that someone had just stood up with a gun. the people we know to have escaped were sitting behind the shooter. you -- when you think about someone who wants to do this kind of mass murder, the movie theater is obviously a very difficult target to defend. >> what we find so much lawrence, that we look at, are the soft targets. we find these mass shooters, mass murderers, they will go in to a soft or target-rich environment where they know there will be a lot o

scary scene as 16-year-old virginia van zandt and her 15-year-old brother joe clung to the side of a cliff. they got there after cell phone dropped down the steep slope. >> we thought we could go down and get it and we were mistaken and get it and we were mistaken. cliff way too steep. we couldn't move go up or down so we called 911. >> you could see why they couldn't climb back up on their own. >> i thought i could like easily slip down the clip and fall in the water. pretty scary. i think the worst. i say my god tell they pass away. >>reporter: crew try ang late the location using the signal from the remaining cell phone. >> i saw them i thought thank god. >> using rope and harness to reef the siblings on solid ground and not exactly home free. >> they have to talk to a judge and do some community service because!bus bus of trespassing and dangerous climbing >> as for joe when asked what he would do differently fix!next differently next time fight won't listen to my sister. >> paramedic checked out both teens neither had any serious jersey. didn't get the cell phone back either. >>

scary scene as 16-year-old virginia van zandt and her 15-year-old brother joe clung to the side of a cliff. they got there after cell phone dropped down the steep slope. >> we thought we could go down and get it and we were mistaken and get it and we were mistaken. cliff way too steep. we couldn't move go up or down so we called 911. >> you could see why they couldn't climb back up on their own. >> i thought i could like easily slip down the clip and fall in the water. pretty scary. i think the worst. i say my god tell they pass away. >>reporter: crew try ang late the location using the signal from the remaining cell phone. >> i saw them i thought thank god. >> using rope and harness to reef the siblings on solid ground and not exactly home free. >> they have to talk to a judge and do some community service because!bus bus of trespassing and dangerous climbing >> as for joe when asked what he would do differently fix!next differently next time fight won't listen to my sister. >> paramedic checked out both teens neither had any serious jersey. didn't get the cell phone back either. >>

scary scene as 16-year-old virginia van zandt and her 15-year-old brother joe clung to the side of a cliff. they got there after cell phone dropped down the steep slope. >> we thought we could go down and get it and we were mistaken and get it and we were mistaken. cliff way too steep. we couldn't move go up or down so we called 911. >> you could see why they couldn't climb back up on their own. >> i thought i could like easily slip down the clip and fall in the water. pretty scary. i think the worst. i say my god tell they pass away. >>reporter: crew try ang late the location using the signal from the remaining cell phone. >> i saw them i thought thank god. >> using rope and harness to reef the siblings on solid ground and not exactly home free. >> they have to talk to a judge and do some community service because!bus bus of trespassing and dangerous climbing >> as for joe when asked what he would do differently fix!next differently next time fight won't listen to my sister. >> paramedic checked out both teens neither had any serious jersey. didn't get the cell phone back either. >>

clint van zandt is with us. we see the strip mall in the lower right-hand side of the screen many businesses there. this seems purposeful and well-intended to strike against any type of military facility. >> well, i think it is. the question is what is the motive. you know as we've been talking this last hour and one witness statement that i've seen thomas, suggests that it was -- according to the witness, a white male who drove up in a gray ford mustang convertible, leaned out of the car and opened up with a long gun, in essence a rifle. now, whether that's a semi-automatic or automatic, we still have to tell. but with those 20 to 30 rounds that suggests it was an extended magazine at least. and then the driver the shooter evidently leaves this area and as pete williams suggests, to our knowledge, i guess, no one was injured at this first location, and then drives to the second location. well this shooter evidently knew the area knew enough to have these two locations in mind as well as had acquired this weapon

we want to check in the msnbc analyst clint van zandt. >> hi richard. >> when you look at where he'sdifferent location. it's not the same place that he escaped from. he is also on a suicide watch. any of this out of the ordinary to you? >> no. i don't think so. you know they moved him 200 mile west. we know the old saying dead men tell no tales. well that, is obviously the case with the other individuals that he escaped with. but in a case of sweat, this looks like a sociopath. he is a psychopath. richard, one characteristic of this psychopathy is they love to talk about themselves. a guy like him, he considers himself the sun and you and i are the planets and stars that circle around him. so because even though he said in the past he wouldn't be taken alive, this guy is going to become a rock star in prison even though he locked up 23 hours a day. >> so become a rob star, everybody believing he's accomplished these amazing feats that he was describing. kind of like a hero? and we have the mitchell story, i don't know why we have a reason to believe her. we have this love triangle of

i want to bring in analyst and former fbi profiler clint van zandt. thank you very much for joining us. >> yeah. >> i was wondering in a situation like this what is the initial response aimed at trying to do? >> well i think you've got a two-level response. number one, you have the normal response you would get to a potential shooting. obviously, it was in september 2013, there was an actual shooting in the d.c. navy yard. as you recall that was a 34-year-old contract worker with significant mental health issues who killed a dozen people and then he himself was killed by law enforcement. so since that incident there's been a tremendous high-profile for the navy yard as far as security, and now, of course for the last few days authorities have told us about the potential for acts of terrorism, perhaps isis inspired in the united states over the fourth of july weekend. so if you couple those two events together you're going to get a very fast a very large response to try to deal with the potential situation like this. >> clint, stay with me for a second

i want to xwri in craig melvin and contributor and former profiler for the fbi clint van zandt. craig, i interrupted you. you were listening in. tell us what you found of significance of what we're learning of john russel houser. >> reporter: it sounds like he was well-known to law enforcement. that might be an understatement. they denied a concealed carry permit in 2000 because of domestic violence complaint. we found out about some alleged arson there, as well. i found it particularly interesting that he was politically active apparently in columbus georgia. not phenix city alabama. columbus, georgia, where he is from. we heard from law enforcement earlier that there were some postings and some writings on social media that they were starting to take a good long hard look at and perhaps finding more about those at the news conference. i talked to a former mayor earlier on the air who said that houser was political. and that he also had a penchant for becoming angry so it sounds like we are starting to get a pretty good idea of who this guy was. before that news conference star

let's bring in clint van zandt. good morning to you. >> good morning. >> everyone as we learned more and more about isis. it's been clear that isis has become more and more influence in the middle east. all along up until this point officials in washington would say but it's not as much as a threat to the u.s. homeland. they do more damage overseas. this is a real change to say that isis has eclipsed al qaeda in terms of the threat to this country. >> yeah two things are going on. u.s. military and others are doing a wonderful job overseas of eliminating that al qaeda threat. number two, isis is continued to improve its social media recruitment. realize right now there are 21,000 known individuals that are watching isis-type of social media on the internet. so when the fbi director said it's what you can't see, it's at least 21,000 people that do see and what they see are isis recruitment, and realize what isis is doing many times is playing to the lowest dmom nater in the united states. they're looking for somebody

i want to bring in contributor and former fbi criminal profiler clint van zandt.u. let's talk about the 59-year-old gunman. his name john russell houser. white guy, used a semiautomatic handgun. he died of a self-inflicted gunshot. police say, though he has not been arrested in the past 10 to 15 years. when you look at the profile that's coming together for this clint, what does your gut tell you about this man and a potential motive. >> we're dealing with a different type of shooter here. when we look at the bell curve of shooters like this thomas you covered so many of them normally we're looking at an angry, frustrated bullied male in his late teens or early 20s. when we start to get somebody this age, this starts to become a guy we call an offense collector or a wound collector. somebody perhaps in his life who has had a lot of different challenges. things haven't went well. his family may have rejected him. he may have lost a job. but like so many shooters in the past this is somebody who blames society. he's angry. he's frustrated. he's seeking revenge. and

i want to bring in matthew what ras ho horace and clint van zandt.ayor of his town who had business dealings with him and the mayor harden knew him by the nickname of rusty. take a listen. >> rusty was a good guy until you disagreed with him. and so he was kind of an odd character and had some ways that were kind of strange and he was just one of those guys that you kind of knew that you didn't want to set off. >> it seems like clint, that the profile of this person is starting to come in clearer now. someone with mental health issues. with access to guns. >> yeah. we were working on this you know when this story broke last night. we were talking about this on msnbc, thomas. unfortunately, this is not that unique of a profile. normally we see a mass shooter like this maybe in the late teens or early 20s. but again, you know there was a retired police captain in his 50s or 60s in florida last year who shot somebody in a movie theater and as you recall i think it was 2009 the holocaust shooter in washington, d.c. that guy was in his 80s. so what we're

i want to bring in analyst and former fbi profiler clint van zandt.ring in a situation like this what is the initial response aimed at trying to do? >> well i think you've got a two-level response. number one, you have the normal response you would get to a potential shooting. obviously, it was in september 2013, there was an actual shooting in the d.c. navy yard. as you recall that was a

let's bring in clint van zandt. good morning to you. even as we learn more and more about isis, clear isis has bekm become ascendant and more and more influence. all along, officials would say it's not really as much a threat to the u.s. homeland. they do more damage overseas. this is a real change to say that isis has now eclimsed al qaeda in terms of the threat to this country. >> yeah, two things going on. number one, the u.s. military, now, they have been doing a wonderful job overseas of eliminated the al qaeda threat. number two, isis is continuing to improve its social media recruitment. right now, there are 21,000 known individuals that are watching isis type of social media on the internet. when the fbi director says it's what you can't see, it's at least 21,000 people who do see, and what they see are isis recruitment, and realize what isis is doing, many times, is playing to the lowest denominator in the united states. they're looking for somebody who is very troubled. they're looking for somebody who wants a purpose in life.