pro-bono a special assistant district attorney in the office of the new york district attorney cyrus vance, to assist with that office's criminal investigation into the personal and business finances of former president donald trump. this evening will talk about his new book, the people versus donald trump and this riveting work of nonfiction. pomeranz tells the story of his unprecedented investigation, why he believes donald trump should be prosecuted, and what we can learn about the nature of justice in america from extraordinary case. mark will be in conversation session with robert costa. robert is the chief election and campaign correspond for cbs news where he covers national politics and american democracy. so everyone, let us welcome mark pomerantz and robert costa. i know much you all. it's great to be here. thanks very much. to politics and prose for hosting this conversation to. c-span audience and to everyone the neighborhood who stop by and mark. thank you for being here to discuss your new book a very in-depth look at this and ongoing investigation of former president donald

tsai vance left you with it.actually be not the fina indictment that donald trump has to defend against if i goes to trial. >> that's right. in the context of that conversation, it was about all the work that cy vance had don as the manhattan distric attorney around the trum organization finances. and we all remember well, many people remember well, you to the supreme court twice. he spent a lot of the time, lot of the resources of hi office, focused on the trump organization under his watch, allan weissenberg meant to jail. that was a lot of his work so i asked him about that. all of his reporting pointed t tuesday being about the hush money payments this is another area he spent lot of time on what he answered there i basically a question of whethe there -- of course of what his successo is doing, there could be another one, there could b another indictment on trum personally, on his finances an financial fraud. so yes, a cliff-hanger, it als means allen brag, we may hea from him again we will have to see. >> r

>> i think on this case, sid vance junior has it right.st of all, we don't ver often imprisoned men my age wh are first time offenders secondly, it is a low leve family if what we believe it's the internet that -- there could be something muc more serious, that cy vance an nobody else, none of us know about. but the more likely thing woul be a house arrest, if that wer the case, trump tower rather than a place where he can go and play call. but probation is a distinc possibility in this case that is not the same with th matters that jack smith is investigating from the justice department they are very serious. >> yeah. some of noticed, potential pollen oldie if in fact they ultimately get to that level katie, david, joe's, quick stick around we will squeeze in a quick break. we will talk to next in the. our next, he -- is essential to maintaining th rule of law in this country. and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pil

vance howard, last time we talked to you, were you were ret go to the bar and get a drink. now you turned around. vance, good to see you. >>> when we come back on "worldwide exchange," leaders descending to china with the latest to engage with xi jinping. >>> the race is on by ev makers to secure the precious metals needed in the autos. a look at who is cashing in. >>> and a potential ban for tiktok in the u.s. is doing little to slow the rate of ad spending on the social media verm plfo a ry busy hour still ahead when ""worldwide exchange" returns. so how do you get everyone on the same page? microsoft surface devices, orchestrated by cdw. they adapt to each user and deliver multi-layered security, so your workforce gets seamless experiences wherever they roam. for devices that fit your unique workforce, trust microsoft surface and it orchestration by cdw. people who get it. my ameriprise advisor has helped me navigate uncertain times before, now is no different. with his advice, i'm confident i'm on track. the plan we created is for the long term. no wonder clients rate u

cy vance talked about that on "meet the press. i want to play it. >> i would be mindful of not permitting some other offense like obstruction of government which is interfering by threat or otherwise the operation of government and i thing that could take what perhaps we think is not the strongest case when you add a count like that, put it in front of a jury and change the jury's mind about the severity of the case >> is he right, joyce? is there a chance trump puts himself in further legal jeopardy i mean, he almost can't wait to get back to mar-a-lago and speak to the american people tomorrow night safer he's arraigned >> so, his lawyers will give him advice that will be very similar to the statements that we heard from cy vance, they will talk to him about the line that he cannot talk. he cannot threaten the judge, he cannot do anything under the oga statute that might amount to interference, with the public official with that whether or not trump can do that remains to be seen he's often his own worst enemy in this regard and

>> yeah. >> joining me now, joyce vance, former u.s. attorney, professor at the university of alabama school of law and msnbc legal analyst, and michael steele, former rnc chair, msnbc political analyst, and host of the michael steele podcast i will add to that sea of people who are super angry about trump's viktor orban, the prime minister of hungary, who tweeted support, keep on fighting, mr. president, we are with you donald trump can count on viktor orban, as well as the american viktor orban in florida. i want to go to you, joyce we finally did get an answer to the question we kind of didn't know the answer to this is when cy vance said on "meet the press," the reason there was no prosecution of trump on the state charges that he's now potentially fashing, because again, we haven't seen this indictment, is he was asked not to by the doj. and that they were asked to put on hold. let me play it one more time this is cy vance talking about what barr asked him to do. >> we learned from the southern district of new york that they asked

cy vance shredding light on what donald trump is now being charged.elcoming former assistant district attorney, karen friedman, a top aide to cy vance, the first question given what we learned there, were you around when this was all going down, and tell me what happened and what influenced his decision to not charge in 2018, 2019, 2020. >> yeah, so it's not unusual when two offices are investigating the same crime or the same person that you bump into each other, and that happens from time to time between the department of justice in the southern district primarily as well as the manhattan d.a.'s office. so in this particular instance, when we were investigating, there were three different investigations going on regarding -- regarding the former president one of them happened to be the stormy daniels hush money payments, and as cy vance said yesterday, the southern district asked the manhattan d.a.'s office to stand down there were already well underway, and it wasn't an issue because cy vance had two other matters that he was also going forward wit

vance said, you know what? we were still in the middle of doing this case. like, it was not ready when bragg came into office so when bragg said it wasn't ready, that seems to be a consistent through line where you have vance saying it's not ready and bragg saying it's not ready. you heard today from the d.a. saying that they in fact interviewed official witnesses, they got more documents. we don't know exactly which witnesses, we don't know exactly which documents, but something clearly changed that allowed brag to go from "it's not ready" to "it is ready", and that's why we're seeing these charges. >> if there is an attack in motions or a trial about this, does it help the current d.a. to some degree to say, yeah, the delays were "a," donald trump was president, "b," there was a federal preempted of some kind, and "c," we found our facts. >> this is unlikely to play out at trial but if there was to be a motion for selective prosecution or you jumped the gun, you were just out to get me,d.a. bragg has a incredible record, because he's like, i'm sorry, if yo

also joining us is joyce vance for me not states attorney for the northern district of alabama. and msnbc contributor. good morning to both of you, thanks for being here. carol, you were with me on thursday night and frida morning. i've got to tell, you 1 millio things are going through m head it's hard to keep clea everything that everybody said something people said brok through. you kept leaning on the fact there is a justice system, there are jury trials. there are actually judges. so for all the stuff tha donald trump is trying to sa about the system, he's going t get a trial in which he goes in, presumed innocent, and it is o the government to convince the jurors otherwise >> that's the big irony of thi whole situation. these claims of authoritaria governments or witch hunts, or things like that this country has the mos amazing justice system in th world. and to denigrate that becaus donald trump is not gettin what he wants personally i really, really below the lowes you can get. this is a system of the u.s. constitution guarantees certai rights to criminal defendants. the

cyrus vance, who preceded alvin bragg and it was vance's office that began this investigation.e, welcome to "meet the press". >> good morning, chuck. >> you began this campaign in 2018. i know you haven't read the indictment, but if you could perhaps help us sort out what does it look like the charges are going to be on tuesday morning? well, chuck, the truth is as you've already commented i haven't head the indictment and we've read a lot about what the indictment may be about, but i think we all have to sort of take a pause here and wait until the charges are released in court on tuesday, if the charges are exclusive he along the lines of the reporting before i came on, it will be a class e felony and there is an upward range and a downward range as you noted that involved no prison whatsoever. so that's what we have to wait and see, really only district attorney bragg knows what the evidence is and it's another thing we all have to be mindful of that we can speculate on what evidence we think they may or may not have, but even with the indictment published, we really will no

it's not a government overreach for jd vance.half way english is the oh fish language let as rename it american. really upset the english. it's our language now. >> greg: wow. tyrus, this guy with the hair has a point, we should have a more official thing. we should have the official leather short pants >> kat: yeah, that's exactly what he was saying. >> greg: that's exactly what will was saying. >> tyrus: thank you for that brilliant point. >> greg: anyway, a lot of official things. we have official flowers, right, the state has an official flower, they have like an official bird. like why not have an official language? and an official pair of leather pants? >> exactly tyrus. >> greg: yeah, will. >> tyrus: no, no, no, no, you brought this dance. leave will out of it. i will a let will go home to his family. gus will love again. no, you know what? i agree with this. it should be. for no other reason than across the world what they consider the dumb language, the easiest language to speak, is english. it's like everyone speaks eng

i can't, you know, speculate as to why cy vance didn't bring the case or my office didn't bring the casemaybe they were concerned that michael cohen hadn't been fully supportc forthcoming, and they have a policy that was in place when i was the u.s. attorney. so different policies, different legal considerations may be the reason why there's a divergence, but we don't know for sure. >> so one of the things that cbs news has confirmed here is that the former president is being charged with falsifying business felony if i understand it correctly. >> yeah. >> that would require them to prove, in other words have evidence here, that it's more than the misdemeanor of falsifying records, that it was done to hide a second crime. that seems fairly complex. what kind of evidence do you need to have there? >> yeah. it's not that complex. it's done all the time. so, you know, the predicate offense, falsification of business records is pretty simple. it seems to have been conceded in large part by various people, including some of the president's own lawyers that on the business records of the compa

vance was right.id that he is people ca records all the time it's us -- confessed to murdering over 12 people in the trial that convicted john gaudy it's just michael cohen, a long as everything, both the exaction a corroborated, i should be. fine >> cynthia, manhattan da, former manhattan da, he gave a lot of comments. today he spoke to my colleague jen psaki. he was going to meet the press he said he's anticipatin something that's called speaking indictment to b revealed on tuesday at the arraignment. can you break down what speaking indictment is that's more information than just a list of, charges right? >> it's so classically you might see a list of charges, e next day that this happened. and then acted violation o this law you could see an indictmen like that. or you could see an indictment that tells a story that's what it means, it tells the story. it goes through this was a conspiracy this is what happened on the state. on this day trump made thi phone call on the state michael cohen mad this

. >> i'll speak to cy vance who first opened this litigation >> this is legal voodoo. >> the gop, ralliesdefense before knowing the specifics of the actual criminal charges he's facing. >> this is nothing short of a political prosecution. >> will the twice-impeached former president continue to be seen as a positive force inside the gop? >> politically it's a -- it's going to be damaging, i think, to the republican party. >> and what will this indictment do to our already divided politics >> i'll talk to leading as the march madness tournament comes to a close i'll talk centrist joe manchin of west virginia >>> and pay to play. as the march madness tournament comes to a close, i'll talk to ncaa president of former republican governor of massachusetts charlie baker on the challenge of how to pay college athletes and joining us for insight and analysis is kristen welker washington post senior political correspondent ashley parker. f former republican governor, pat mccrory and former white house senior adviser stephanie cutter. welcome to sunday. i it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in

is susanne craig, pulitzer prize-winning investigative reporter for the new york times, and joyce vance, former district attorney for the northern district of alabama. thank you both for being here. joyce, let me start with you i terms of the legal implication today of the fact that trump i speaking in his deposition do you see anythin particularly meaningful in that? >> so, it's always a challenge when you have a client like th former president, who i thin lawyers despair of having an client control over him, and h answers questions. what will happen now is th attorney generals office wil comb through the transcript. they will see if anything that the former president has sai assists their case but because this is a civi proceeding, they are also free to share this deposition wit folks like alvin bragg, who ma be looking potentially a criminal charges it's tough to figure why trump 's lawyers would have let hi go in and answer questions for more than seven hours. >> yeah, seven hours is a long time, susanne craig. and as joyce rightly points out, i'm sure alvin bragg i interested in wh

from your conversation wit tsai vance that donald trump faces anywhere from four position, at no time jail, t up to four years that was awesome now i know the trickier trade, my friend. obviously, in your conversatio with andrew weizmann, i figure out why you're so good at what you're doing already you've been asking questions and doing all the research always i didn't put it past, you bu anyway, i'm just saying, i'm really proud of what you'r doing. i'm grateful to have you here. >> thank you, alex you are credible have a great show today. >> see you next week, thanks a very good day to all of yo from msnbc world headquarter here in new york welcome to everyone -- developing this hour, loomin history dominating the front page of newspapers across this country today. about 48 hours fro unanticipated events, an moment that will generat headlines in the days, weeks months, even years to come right now, donald trump and hi golf club in west palm beach set to become the first former president to appear in court a a criminal defendant here is what is expected t unfold trump will arrive in

but my question is, you have cy vance as a guest this morning. he saying about how this has all played out since he left, is it any indication on how his investigation went? >> well, look, he is careful. obviously, he doesn't know what is in the indictment yet. but he did engage with us, if we assume that the indictment is focused mostly on the hush money payments of what that would look like. just to clarify, what alvin bragg declined to pursue is this larger case that also included misdeeds and perhaps even a felony charge on having to do with how he handled these hush money payments, that it was part of a larger case. the problem with that is, while michael cohen was the trump person that essentially agreed to cooperate with the prosecution to narrate how the hush money scheme worked, they didn't get that out of allen weisselberg, who has been convicted with the trump organization, but refused to essentially cooperate with the prosecution to, what they might call narrate how the scheme worked inside the trump organization for everything else.

msnbc legal analyst, joyce vance is with us as well quote, let me start with you o this one as you have bee following the story pretty closely. give us the reaction so fa that you are hearing on this latest decision. >> that's right, i just got of the phone with multipl abortion providers, an abortion rights advocates wh applauded the supreme court' decision to reserve the status quo as it relates to medicatio abortion they did emphasize that th battle over abortion pills i far from being over, and acces to the pills could look much different by the time mid week we also heard from protester on the ground in front of th supreme court who echoed the same sentiment take a listen. >> a sense of outrage that a judge with no medical training would have the audacity to override a decision of the fda that was the products of experts in the field >> we are getting the christia evangelicals view imposed on the entire country, whic violates the separation of church and state furthermore, the drug that was recently band, because it is not safe by a texas drug is on that is used for miscarriage tre

s office working with cy vance and other attorneys and you are looking at the trump organization, how trump has articulated his financial profile in recent decades. tell me about one of the main characters -- over the years, when i would go to trump tower to report on mr. trump, allen weisselberg. mark: allen weisselberg, we knew him from the work that had been done in the reporting that had been done was donald trump's right-hand man. you saw him as kind of a brooding omnipresence in many photographs of donald trump. we knew he had worked not only for donald trump for decades, but for donald trump's father, fred trump, for a long time. it was clear from the investigation that had been done that allen weisselberg knew he was the money guy in the organization, to the extent there were financial crimes we were investigating. allen weisselberg would have to know about them. it is not a huge organization. it is run by a small group of trusted employees, many of whom had been with trump for decades. allen weisselberg perhaps being one of the oldest, most long-standing employees. and so as

vance said in that new interview?to do anything simply because they were protecting trump. is it any different than what we saw in jeffrey berman's book there is a real problem in this country when it comes to accountability by those who are in trust with power. i'm trofreferring to the doj legitimately, six or seven different members of congress have asked for inspector generals to open up investigations into my case, not one single investigation has been opened. you have to ask yourself why my -- my quesrequests have been denie. zblcht >> does that match your experience as dealing with the feds in sdny and then convicted? does that match your experience or do you not know mr. vance is saying basically the feds were trying to wall off and tell a local prosecutor to just drop it >> no. what i ultimately learned from the drip, drip, drip of information, you know, i even filed an action, a grievance with the new york state bar association against jeffrey berman first within weeks they sent me a dismissal on it to we're

let's go to donald trump's economic adviser vance ginn, what he makes of the job cuts that vance, are accelerating. what do you think. >> neil a pleasure to be with you. i think you laid it out really well at the opening. we have a slowing economy. we have a jobs market also struggling. adp reported earlier the private sector added 145,000 jobs that was well below estimates 210,000. consensus estimate. 240,000. unemployment rate stays at 3.6%. these things show slower growth in the economy and also jobs. see that with the tech sector, the banking sector. you start to see the bust, we had a artificial boom for so long. now we're seeing the bust. i think that is what the market is pricing in as well. neil: the fed's bullard is on the wires right now and he is indicating right now this backdrop, we might be coming off our best levels, but the job backdrop is strong enough to keep the fed doing what it is doing. he is saying that the fed should stick to its interest rate path, get inflation down while the labor market is still strong. so he is not changing his posture on these rate hikes,

>>> we're back with former federal prosecutor joyce vance i walked through the details we got from theent your thoughts? >> reading transcripts is always very illuminating, ari, and i think you do a great job of hitting the high notes something i notice is that mr. m mr. blank blanch, the former president's new lawyer repeatedly referred to him as the president. prosecutors will -- we'll is an a motion to require the former president's attorneys to refer to him as mr. trump in court you know, this is the same reason that, for instance, a police officer witness -- unless he would normally wear his uniform during the day is not permitted to put on dress blues when he takes the stand because you want him to be who they are. people in the court are referred to by normal names and president trump becomes citizen trump. >> what did you think of the decision by the prosecutors to not worry about whether someone would say, oh, this arraignment was different or longer and to really go on offense having perhaps learned from other past clashes with donald trump that everything is going to be thro

vance.>> good to be here. >> steve: let's talk a little bit about what is going on overseas. we know the president is about to speak in belfast. for the last couple days we heard from emmanuel macron the guy who runs france who essentially said yep, we need america's help with ukraine, but, when it comes to taiwan, ,you guys are on your own. now, as it turns out, he said this. russia must -- rather, europe must resist the pressure to become america's followers. he suggested europe should reduce its dependence on the extraordinary -- extra tear torality of a u.s. dollar. that is word i have never seen before just now and he could have made it up. >> first of all, steve, macron the french have not gone as much as they should neither have the germans whether he talks about what they have done and need to do in places like taiwan have self-awareness about the fact that you guys are not caring your fair share in your own backyard. >> steve: no kidding. >> this is crazy. reserve this is complicate

from cy vance? >> the weisselberg thing i really important, i think yo can feel the heat in his cel right now and rikers he is not gonna walk out o records and just have this end i think what prosecutors are looking to do, as got two more weeks left, he is potentiall facing insurance fraud charges that could be brought agains him. i think they're using th pressure of that to get him to cooperate. not just on the larger cas that we've talked about abou the valuations with the trum organization when they nee that loan, they go high on valuations, when they go int the tax man, they go low very much want his cooperation on that i believe that they're working on that. secondly, i believe, depending on how things go for allen weisselberg, if there is a level of cooperation, you coul see it as a witness. in the stormy daniels case, we don't know right now where things are at, but the trump organization is paying his bills. he is 75 years old i just don't think anyone of u can really, except for him underst

former manhattan distric attorney cyrus vance i breaking his silence on th indictment today, and he i coming up first. plus, house speaker kevi mccarthy promises to hol current mta alvin brag accountable, whatever that means. congressman adam shift joins m with his reaction in just a fe minutes. at the same time, presiden biden is keeping his head down on the trump indictment. i will offer my advice on ho other democrats should handl the politics of this moment. and later, i don't think forme prosecutor andrew weissmann ha slipped in 72 hours, as he continues to break down all of this legal news across msnbc i paid angela visit to tal about how he keeps up with all of, it and also, his weekend routine. okay, by now you know that the former president has bee indicted this all may feel like a whole lot to digest, i know it feels like that even to me lots of evidence, lots o witnesses, and years o investigation have led to this moment but, here is the bottom line this is an example of ou judicial system working like i should work. and how it works in democracie across the globe yes, i kn

we know that federal prosecutors told cyrus vance to drop that investigation.ime, was president, the guidance was that the department ofjustice did not go after a sitting president even after he left office, this hovered around him and many got the sense that it was not going to come back to bite him. but then we heard that after alvin bragg secured a victory in november against the trump organisation in a tax fraud case, then he took a second look at the hush money payments. he thought to himself, can we win in a jury trial? does, is the evidence strong enough? given the success of the trump organisation trial, which did rely on testimony from his former chief financial officer, but very limited testimony because remember allen weisselberg has been very reluctant to betray his long—time boss. the case really centred around financial documents and i think that is what so many are waiting to see. we have heard from michael cohen's lawyer saying that this case does not rests just on michael cohen. someone, some republicans have attacked as someone as someone who

but >> thank you all so much yamiche alcindor, joyce vance, bad luck for you, anthony, i'm not lettingeave yet. why? because when we come back, we're talking on the fox new defamation lawsuit and what it can mean for rupert murdoch. and later, students around the country are walking out of class to protest gun violence. while in florida, the governor is making it easier to carry guns matthew dowd and bob tortell are here on the love there we're just getting underway on a busy wednesday night by your side, byou get to., you also get to trim this, edge that, and blow everything away. isn't the outdoors great? it is great. because you made it that way. get the job done right with craftsman. we build pride. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirec

the previous manhattan da, c vance, was scrutinizin weisselberg in connection to fraud claims levied at trump and his organization by none other than michael cohen and that vast criminal probe the one started by cy vance, that appears to still be open. the new york times reported in february, prosecutors were dangling more charges agains allen weisselberg in an effort to get him to cooperate in the hush money payments case that's the one alvin bragg issued an indictment for yesterday. it is important to remember, this larger fraud investigatio is arguably a broader and more consequential investigatio than the hush money payments case it involves allegations that trump and his business inflate and deflated assets in order t get more favorable insurance and mortgage rates so, weisselberg's potentia criminal exposure here is very much alive issue as it was first reported right here on the show, with wnbc, weisselberg has parted way with the lawyers who represented him during the trump organization investigation. weisselberg reportedly now has a new lawyer, someone who is also not coinci

joining me now, once again msnbc legal analyst joyc vance.d one other charges could be filed against trump, especiall those in georgia could this open floodgates now, if someone has had the -- to go first, will othe prosecutors give this manhatta case room to play out before they act >> so, it's an interesting question, alex a lot of people have bee speculating there is some sort of breaking the seal effect of the first indictment but i can tell you from 25 years in the justice department, it is a prosecutor, you ar really not focused on what other people are doing you are focused very much on your own case. prosecutors like to bring thei cases as soon as they ar ready. you don't indict too early you've got to have you evidence ready to go there's no reason to hold case once you have sufficien evidence and all of your ducks are lined up i suspect the timing is largel independent here >> okay. as we look specifically at tha session regarding th mar-a-lago documents, ho consequential is that for jack smith? >> that case is incredibly important.

and fox, the head person i rupert murdoch and he will hav to be their aunt's stamp >> joyce vance hasshe is with us for th second as well you know this family so well jim. how do you think they ar reacting to this nobody says no to report not in his world >> i don't think they ar surprised. because this judge has bee very tough the calls have tended to b breaking into minions favor. dominion voting which is suing him for defamation so i don't think they ar surprised. they are clearly not released. rupert murdoch has not had a track record of doing well i these sorts of settings. he doesn't like it there was a defamation - earlier when in fact he wa very frank may have further case a little bit. so clearly not happy and the really went to great lengths t head this off. they might not be happy bu their business is still supe strong anthony were once they pai contributor and a host on fo business what do you make of this lawsuit. do you think is as bad for frogs as a lot of other people think it is? because they are out there every night and they keep on trumping >> i think it is bad,, b

jeremy peters, joyce vance thank you. the trial don't go far coming up, the former presiden says that nothing, not even criminal conviction, could get him to drop out of the 202 presidential race. al franken and tim miller ar here on all things politic when the 11th hour continues helps lower a1c, and it's covered by medicare. before using the dexcom g7, i was really frustrated. all of that finger pricking and all that pain, my a1c was still stuck. before dexcom g7, i couldn't enjoy a single meal. i was always trying to outguess my glucose, and it was awful. before dexcom g7, my diabetes was out of control because i was tired, not having the energy to do the things that i wanted to do. (female announcer) dexcom g7 is a small, easy-to-use wearable that sends your glucose numbers to your phone or dexcom receiver without painful finger sticks. the arrow shows the direction your glucose is heading-- up, down, or steady-- and because dexcom g7 is the most accurate cgm, you can make better decisions about food, medication, and

there was vance and now brag. this is a very well-run office.ported vance, the previous district attorney, when he went to the u.s. supreme court to enforce his subpoena for the documents from the trump organization that led to this investigation. i submitted -- submitted an amicus brief on his behalf. i think he was right, the supreme court agreed. this is the office that takes its investigations very, very seriously. now, that being said, this once again is not the most serious charge that could be brought against donald trump. i don't think this is itself disqualifying for the presidency. we'll have to see how this plays out. but what happened after the election of 2020 and the attempt to reverse the election and the violence that followed that is much, much more concerning for representative democracy. we cannot tolerate that type of thing in our government if we want to remain a democracy. and so we're waiting for the cisions about prosecution ofts anybody high up, including potentially the former president int matter. christian: we've been

attorney joyce vance. joyce, your reaction to idaho's law?nalizing assisting with an out of state abortion >> right the idaho law has that affect because, of course, to access care now, many citizens of idaho will have to travel out of state to get abortion care this includes not just voluntary abortions but medically necessary abortions for people who are miscarrying. idaho now takes the title in what appears to be a republican race to the bottom for statutes that restrict women's ability to control their own medical health the unfortunate news here -- there will be lawsuits launched by private parties that's already in the works. the unfortunate truth here is that these cases will be heard by a united states supreme court that increasingly has shown hostility to doing anything that will restrict a state's ability to enact laws like this one. >> michael, republicans may well be appealing to the base, energizing their base, with these abortion and gun laws. won't it hurt them in a general election >> i think so. there's no doubt here. when yo

attorney criminal prosecutor joyce vance. welcome to both of you joyce, what would you want to know from boris epshteyn if you were leading the probe today >> like he said he runs the whole gamut. he's the one who coordinated between the two lawyers who made that false certification to doj that all of the classified materials have been returned then there's a search warrant and we find out it's not true. if i'm jack smith i want to know what he knows about that >> you mention that sworn statement. "the new york times" reporting on that scrutiny saying he's played a role, quote, in connecting the two lawyers who helped draft a statement last june and a diligent search was conducted at mar-a-lago, and that always raises the question define diligent and define search >> define diligent, define search, define what you were told about the search. and i would add to that because i agree, obviously, the mar-a-lago documents case is a significant one particularly on obstruction. i would add, though, fake electors i mean this was one

cyrus vance jr had some advice for trump ahead of his arraignment. take listen. i've got to say that i was disturbed to hear the former president speak in the way he spoke about about the district attorney brag and even the trial court in the past week, i would be mindful of not committing some other criminal offense like obstruction of government administration, which is interfering with or, uh bikes by threat or otherwise, the operation of government and obviously, that's referring to trump's not so high opinion. i think it's fair to say, of manhattan manhattan district attorney alvin bragg and some of the judges involved here. what do you make of those comments? yeah, well, you know, remember cyrus vance was the previous d a from manhattan. and there's been a lot of, um, you know, criticism or uh, comments in the last couple of days from defenders of the former president, saying, if this case was so great, why didn't save ants bring it, so that's a big thing he was asked about, and what he's been saying is he did not because the justice department asked him to

attorney joyce vance in set, in studio so glad to have you here how did this hearing play out today, what does it mean for the larger battle between bragg and the house gop we have seen playing out for a number of weeks now? >> yeah, i think it's really important to start with the facts here which is that in bragg's first year in office in 2022, which was the center of the hearing, this morning, there were 78 homicides in manhattan which was a drop of 15% from the year before, a helpful statistic that the associated press called out was that in palm beach county, there were just as many residents as new york. there were 96 homicides. that is why i think it's important to view this hearing in the context of jim jordan's last few weeks he has sent letters to alvin bragg since former president trump's indictment where he appeared in new york and pled not guilty to 34 counts against him with regards to a 2016 hush money payment that was paid. he has claimed that bragg's office is subject to congressional scrutiny since it has federal grants and he subpoenaed some of the prosecutors, the

jeremy peters, joyce vance thank you.tely be back here during the trial don't go far coming up, the former presiden says that nothing, not even criminal conviction, could get him to drop out of the 202 presidential race. alpha franken and tim miller are here, when all thi politics at the 11th hou continues. ♪ i take once-daily jardiance, ♪ ♪ at each day's staaart. ♪ ♪ as time went on it was easy to seee ♪ ♪ i'm lowering my a1c. ♪ jardiance works 24/7 in your body to flush out some sugar! and for adults with type 2 diabetes and known heart disease, jardiance can lower the risk of cardiovascular death, too. jardiance may cause serious side effects including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, that can lead to sudden worsening of kidney function, and genital yeast or urinary tract infections. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, ketoacidosis, or an allergic reaction, and don'

friedman agnifilo, former chief assistant da at manhattan da's office, a top aide to former d cyrus vances for joining us on this, karen. we appreciate it i think the overarchin thinking on this is, alvin bragg better have a pretty strong case if he is indicted, the former president of th united states. we are looking at what we have seen to be 34 counts are, so w don't know what those will be. what do you think about that notion and the prospect of the strength of this case? >> obviously, until we see the indictment, we know exactl what the charges are and the evidence supporting the charges, which we think we might have some indication of that when the charges are filed becaus there will be a statement of facts or a speaking indictment that is published because this is a case of great publi interest after that, many people will b able to comment further on the strength of the case let's just remember that thi was a case that was brought by the southern district agains michael cohen for exactly thes payments they certainly felt the case was strong enough to bring against michael cohen. t

>> joyce vance, let's talk about your take -- small, medium, or large? if you've got tax cases involved here, conspiracy and tax, and you know, fraudulent business filings, you're going pretty large. >> i think it is going big and to the point that was being made before people knew what was in the indictment, there were a lot of complaints, many of them motivated by politics, saying that this was an insignificant indictment, that it was just about some records keeping violations i'm sure this becomes more clear when we see the unsealed indictment, but knowing that there is a significant number of felony charges, that it's more expansive than stormy daniels, that begins to give aus a pictue of the work that was done here i have the same question as neal has. i'm interested to know what changes. but having been a prosecutor 25 years, having been involved in many extensive grand jury investigations, i can tell you sometimes when witnesses get in front of the grand jury and begin answering questions, new facts, unexpected facts can come to light or you can b

neil: didn't cyrus vance, jr. have the same case and others have the same case?emocrats all and they didn't pursue it? >> well at the time cyrus vance was bringing the case they certainly did not but this case is evolving. there is always, this investigation has been going on. alvin bragg had a lot more information having indicted the cfo an indicted and convicted cfo and trump company. that is where the business fraud, financial fraud eminate from. watch and see what the indictment is unsealed and what is there. stormy daniels may have not be there. if it is there, it will be a small indictment of the charges, of 20 or 30 counts. it will be business fraud piece. it will be a dark cloud over republicans and donald trump because this indictment will lay out a criminal enterprise. if he does that, there is a lot that could change politically. we won't be talking about impact of the race. we'll talk about whether donald trump can beat this case or not. we just haven't seen the indictment. neil: you know, he overcome a lot, right? he survived two impeachment votes. >

joyce vance is a former u.s. attorney and law professor at the university of alabama. frank figliuzzi formerly with the fbi and an msnbc national security analyst so much emotion yet again, ken let's talk nuts and bolts if we can. to start, what's the latest on this >> chris, police say they arrived at the bank in the center of louisville around 8:30 a.m.and greeted by a hail of gunfire. there were reports of shots fired. the police immediately began firing back. the suspect was kid. the police are not saying or aren't sure yet whether he was killed by a police bullet or took his own life. two officers were shot or wounded in the exchange of gunfire. one critically and was taken to surgery. the other brought to the hospital with non-life-threatening injuries. as you said, four people killed inside the bank. eight wounded total, included the officers brought to the hospital police have not yet said what type of weapon was used or what the motive was they did say this was either a rrt or former employ of the bank we were told earlier that they were investigating this as

attorney joyce vance.chances that it's going to work? >> so it's a very interesting move and it's an aggressive one boy bragg, but it's appropriate because he's asking the court in essence to issue a declaratory judgment you know, we're used to civil lawsuits where people ask for money damages. here bragg is saying to the court i need you to rule on what my rights are vis-a-vis the judiciary committee's efforts to subpoena me, subpoena other people on my staff or former staff. i want you to tell the judiciary committee back off, your subpoenas aren't any good here, they can't be enforced given the courts are used to entering those kinds of decisions and there is some clear law to follow here, i think it's a savvy move. it's an offensive move it's an effort not to wait for the judiciary committee to continue to issue subpoenas, but rather to settle the issue now. >> so what sort of -- jordan says that this is bragg trying to block congressional oversight. what sort of oversight does congress, does the house

cy vance said he was asked to, quote, stand down by sdny, and sdny, for its part, actually found that trump coordinated and directed the exact scheme described in today's indictment. he was pursuing with much more interest, prosecutors did disagree, but when you heard cy vance talk, he was facing obstacles while pursuing this case not only did he have covid, but the -- he went to the supreme court twice to try to get the tax records, so there were a lot of things that slow-walked it. where they aren't playing with appraisals >>> you put it down, and i think that that's where he was sort of putting -- i still think that that case could come forward it's a criminal case going to tr trial. >> it's how that anyone who read your tax story -- how it -- what it says is everything is an absolute fraud it's exactly how i would describe a body of recording about taxes. just that nugget of him, that it has to be bigger, it's just at the heart of him i'm imagining already what defense he'll have i think he would say, i sign a lot of checks. this is something that michael cohen and allen weisselbe

to goods transiting through the country. hungary, poland, and still vakio, have introduced similar vance grants as western patriot. air defense systems have arrived in the country and a tweet picturing 3 patriot launchers, ukraine's defense minister thanked his us, dutch and german counterparts. earlier the german government announced that the system it had pledged had, in fact been delivered. the system is also reportedly arrived from washington and missiles and parts from the netherlands, leaked us intelligence briefs recently suggested ukraine is running out of rockets for its soviet era air defense systems. to louisa manuel charles's and keith and she told us how important the patriot systems are for the country to fend off russian attacks. it is of paramount importance. 1 nicole because the current air defense system are simply not sufficient to or to defend a country to protect a country against all the attacks. the hybrid attacks launched by, by the russian army were talking about massage we talking about drones? are we talking about all kinds of things, aircraft so, so a launchin