vanco i'm never not there is fortune is asked and made it into billions and billions of dollars and. globally minded person who could theoretically be investing his money in lots of worldwide projects if it weren't for the western sanctions because businessman and sports money put aside. circle today my guest is actually about the. western sanctions against russia are affecting companies and industries but they also targeted russia's most influential businessmen personally what's it like to be persona non-grata the. country will trade ties between russia and the rest of the world survived the sanctions and russian business or dumps into its new reality and i don't and i think it's great to have you on our program at this really really happy because we have lots to talk about and so there's just the widespread idea in the west that slapping sanctions against certain people their assets their kompany as well as people to create an opposition to the russian president and that will ensure a result in a policy change you're one of the 1st people who are hit by the sanctions and they mean