the advisors who use vanguard and vanguard themselves. they are attracted to very low cost.lackrock and state street have products that are very liquid and they serve a purpose. it is reasonable of this sort of violent flows in and out in the liquid products. is there anything that changes this pattern if the active guys suddenly start to do better on a consistent basis? and they all agree to return. it is where the money is looking at the options here. we will go at the ones they give us a great return. eric: the magellan fund is the same drop in the last two weeks. he has to ride the market. the hedge funds, they usually have a short position. inside asascinating always. a bloomberg etf analyst. and be sure to join eric and wednesday,rrow on for bloomberg etf iq at 12:30 p.m. we are dedicated to exchange traded products. etf, etp, etn, all of that. this is bloomberg. go, these close of conversation with goldman sachs chairman and ceo lloyd blankfein coming up in just moments from the 10,000 small businesses summit in d.c. julia: definitely last but not least. in new york,

manus: vanguard asset services chief european economist.ustomer, you can watch on tv go, everything that we use throughout the day. you can also influence the conversation, asking a question at the bottom. anna: coming up, bhp billiton's profit for first half has risen to a three-year high. we will discuss the company's earning, in the market, next. manus: and the u.s. market reopens after president's day, and the bond markets are back in the spotlight as the treasuries -- a flatter yield curve. we have an onslaught of supply. how will the market take it question mark this is bloomberg. ♪ manus: welcome back. a live shot of the capital of the united states. lower as blackrock says they have gone over u.s. equities to buy. the u.s. tax plan will supercharge the earnings. we are coming back from president's day lighter, a quarter trillion dollars in terms of bond offerings. let's get across to yousef gamal el-din. yousef: thanks. with hsbc, the reported adjusted fourth-quarter pretax profit of $3.6 billion, missing the lowest estimate among a

vanguard reckons the only way is up.uarter of amount -- quarter of a trillion dollars a paper issuance. prime minister's prepared to vote today for the ecb's 's president. -- ecb's president. in saudi arabia, the the msci index. bloomberg markets medela spirit we have an asian equity session firming up. -- this is bloomberg markets middle east. we have an asian equity session firming up. the new year holiday and preparing for president's day in the united states. singapore up 1%. the uighur yen is feeding into that trade. purchasesee equities by individual investors. exchange market, the aussie dollar up .3%. i want to tell you what is happening in the sovereign bonds and commodities space. summary pricing in the bond space. but in commodities, you wti and brent crude up .3%. we did have the u.s. rigs data from the united states, but it's the confidence on the demand story that is driving with the weaker dollar. chatter,is the tariff possible escalation from the united states. i want to show you what is happening in some

you couldn't get the vanguard to trade for some investors. when vanguard fell down on the job. >> it is 1:00 in washington, 6:00 in london, and two a.m. in hong kong. julia: credit suisse was involved. let's talk about the price performance over the past couple of days. what are they saying about this? croy: -- cory: there was no trading losses and the product worked as they said it was going to work. i don't know if people realized what that was going to look like. the unprecedented surgeon volatility was possible -- surge in volatility was possible. julia: thank you for joining us. let's look at the bloomberg business flash. the are talking about some of the ongoing instability in the s&p 500 can be traced to valuations in the tech sector. the question of how to value companies like apple, amazon, techbet, and other big firms is central to what is going on in the equity valuation world. i don't have any better idea than you. julia: some companies in the continue torket talk about fixed income markets. central banks are looking to tighten mo

th and blr largest, $600 trillion, so a lot of money, and second vanguard, both have to replicate thatindex and they end up buying vista or american outdoor, which owns smith & wesson, whichanufacturing the gun used to massacre 17 students and their teachers in parkland. sturm ruge perp they buy these companies because they have to. now, there's also another element, a movement, as it were, in the financial markets or the investing world towards what they call e.s.g., environment, social, and governan and millennials, in particular, who are your future customers if you are a blackrock or vanguard, they are very much driven by social purpose. so ink you're really-- you're starting to see this-- it's almost a conflict. on one hand you have all the index funds where all the money is going, on the other hand, you have a movement making sure your money is going to companies that provide a broader soct.ial bene and that's all starting to sort of rubber meeting the road with blackrock c.e.o. larry fink, who is one of the most powerful people in finance, wrote a letter just a month and a half

that's three times less than fidelity... ...and four times less than vanguard.hat's next, no minimums? ...no minimums. schwab has lowered the cost of investing again. introducing the lowest cost index funds in the industry with no minimums. i bet they're calling about the schwab news. schwab. a modern approach to wealth management. >>> welcome back you might be wondering what is the pest way to protect your long term investments. for that we turn to the options market and a segment we like to call the more you know today dan is aik breaking down what they call a collar strategy >> let's talk about this relative to a stock that you may own that you really love and never want to sell you are in a period like now where it is volatile and you are seeing potential for it to go clear. a collar strategy is against a long stock position. let's use a 100 share unit you would sell one out of the money call against that 100 shares long and you would use the proceeds to buy one out of the money put. you are collaring your stock participating in upside to a certain point but

going to depend on institutional investors like the world's biggest money managers blacklock and vanguard and if they are being pressured enough by shareholders to back up they are among the top shareholders all three of the biggest publicly traded gun manufacturers talk about numbers there's a very important number here two thirds of all handguns important in the united states are made in europe so how does that drawing the discussion that huge market . well companies like zigzags who are glock and read out already have a growing shares off america's firearm market foreign firms in general and the share of them off american firearm sales rose from ten percent to a peak of forty five percent and tooth. seven now at the moment it's a little less and the lion's share of this come from european countries austria for example alone home to block exported one point three million handguns to america and its number one importing country and some of these syrup in companies by the way are also just as active as american competitors when it comes to lobbying lawmakers on gun ownership regulation fo

what was formed the idea of what is the pkk was no longer going to be the soul vanguard of the kurdish movement in the region so each part of the kurdish region would have its own part that would operate to bring democracy and autonomy and gender freedom and other things along erdogan's lines but they were part of the pkk nonetheless. an important distinction and what the u.s. is focused on is the fact that in syria the ypj this dominant player offers according to the specific conditions of syria. they have autonomy. they make their decisions based on what's good at the moment. they train their people in syria. they are focused on syria so i don't think obviously this nuance is not a prelude to turkey but nonetheless it's important when looking at the ypj. the same time the operations of this organization in syria have not been counter in the military way against turkey. there have been attacks on turkey from syrian territory. they tried to keep over the past few years their commanders in syria. so the problem is for the united states later on is by denying any link and something that'

for these lady it is ♪ >>> britney spears will be honored with the vanguard award fo ♪ ♪ there are twof people in the world. those who fear the future... and those who embrace it. the future is for the unafraid. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> my how time flies. that is michael jackson's kids paris and prince. paris posted the rare home video to wish prince a happy birthday. he is 21 today. i can't believe it. >> you and me both. there's a lot of birthday partying going on. danai celebrated with her "black panther" stars. she's one of the fierce women in this movie and doesn't take a back seat to any man. >> i'll be your sidekick. >> they're far from sidekicks, the warrior, the spy and scientist and queen. "black panther" is nothing without these powerful women. angela bassett is the widow queen. real life husband courtney b. vance was in total awe. >> this is the movie i love. i have to get my fix with this action. >> when it comes to shear girl power danai is the fierce leader of the all female fighting force and lupita has made spy skills. the two shared a stage in 2016. they had no idea the other was in

even vanguard is telling us you're going to make low single digits you actually assumed rate of seven so you're going to get there so you've got to find these one core of the assets with the private investments to give you an illiquid the premium real estate venture capital center or something like crypto currencies big coin if they are in a center where you're going to get this lift from the network effect that's such an incredible pitch to say that interest rates have been artificially low for years an error is due to the bailouts that are ongoing for the banking sector and your pension rates are as we thought they'd be seven percent but they're actually one percent and to save the day to save america it's got to be bitcoin i mean who would have thought that this was going to be the so there is now let's talk about the vix the vix is the volatility index and what happened with associated e.t.f. products recently regarding these products your thoughts look short selling not that bad. leverage not that bad leverage plus short selling can be bad and so what we had here was everybody an

i also think the -- the sense that a disney movie is going to be the vanguard of an accurate portrayalf spiritual, emotional revolution -- i don't think that is going to happen. what i wrote about when i wrote about the film in "the new york times," was not about the movie. i wrote it before i saw the movie. i wrote about the moment. this movie happens to be the vanguardrd of the moment currrrently, but not at all the only thing in a moment. there's "a wrinkle in time" coming which is a film that centers women. i spoke to the director for this beast. what i see happepening, when i wrote what i write about the film, i was not writing about the film but t the factct this moment is happening in afro -futurism. and what that means for us as a people at this point in our experience w was the amy: : lete quote from your piece as you write about afro-futurism. you write -- it is the idea that we will have won the future. >> that is correct. this is an offering into that. this film with all of its good things, it's troubling things, its complex things is an offering into that. my understanding

i'm confident if we do these six things, we're a vanguard and a pioneer and out in front. and that our returns will continue to be as they've been for the last four years, that they will continue to be top percentile. >> can you touch base on the sixth point of your recommendation? >> sure. number one is carbon-constrained strategy for $1 billion. 4% of our assets. twice what new york is now. second, hire a director of social responsibility investle ing to coordinate level two of the board's policies and also recommending to hire an analyst in that as well. number three, to partner together with other pension plans and key institutional investors. you've heard of their growing size. oil companies -- and oil is only 30% of global energy production. last year the world consumed 1.5 trillion gallons of gasoline. how much resources do you think the companies have? do you think we should walk away rather than try to engage and effect and change how they allocate capital when they have the kind of resources that they do? i don't view that as a responsible thing to do. i think we

the people in middle america are the problem, and the people on the coasts are the cultural vanguards. more and more americans are alienated from self appointed cultural arbiters. political correctness is dying. that is not the end of the store. the error of pc may be over, but it can come back. in 1996, clinton said that the era of the government was over. t the time the national debt was $5.2 trillion. today it is $21 trillion. bad ideas you not die. they fade away temporarily. the only way to ensure political correctness continues to lose is if we tell the truth, uses abrasiveness, not meanness, the false attacks on institutions. we have to tell the truth. [applause] this is the hard part. we cannot become tribal. the easiest thing is to do is to attack people who are for pc. use a hammer, and the media are the nail, and that great. when trump complains that anything negative ever said about that is not true, or when the president says there were good people marching in charlottesville, that is not him waging an effective war against p.c. it is nonsense. it is immoral. whoit actual

are usually seen as the vanguard, pushing more and susan: challenge political laws. since you work with personal diaries. tell me about stories that struck you. you must have a favorite among them that will help people understand the project is about. jon: there is a young girl growing up in a slaveowning family. right before the silver -- civil war. she was eight years old. she overheard snippets from her parents talking about the upcoming conflict. she assumed abolitionists must be some kind of monster. it is a beautiful example of how began people are absorbing political messages and connected to the conversation, but they do not always understand issues or the ideologies. they are piecing together the -- of the engagement that is concerned but not based on understanding the issues at the time. susan: what happened to her? jon: she got more and more engaged in politics over time. the civil war broke out and she had to negotiate in this world where her father ultimately decided not to support slaveowning but she lived in a community that did. so she had to negotiat

vanguard goes where it has never withbefore, and we speak john merrick's about why the firm is makingom plain-vanilla passive index funds. and technology takes flight.

vanguard -- really good's a point.s such a large company they can afford to offer their products at large -- lower prices. they need to hit their products into the hands of investors. you have the option of buying one for 30 basis points. it is a little bit of a you're going to go with the cheap one. >> you are benefiting because prices are coming down but you have to read the small print. >> it is exactly that. the vast majority of flows and assets are in vanilla market cap products. the ones that are more complicated are a minority. if you want to play in that space and get into products that are more complex you need to be cognizant of the fact they are more complicated. >> we need to do more to give investors information they need. to say go read the perspective is a little much for most of them. scarlet: we have a stoplight alert system. you can find it on the bloomberg. our thanks to rachel evans. a reminder. on can hear more about etf's etf iq every wednesday. this is bloomberg. ♪ julia: this is bloomberg market

the idea was the pkk was no longer going to be the vanguard of the movement, but each part of the region would have its own party that would operate to bring kurds democracy, autonomy, and gender freedom and of things , but they were part of the pkk nonetheless. what is an important distinction and what the u.s. focuses on is the fact in syria the pyd operates according to the specific conditions of syria. they have autonomy in their decision-making processes. they make their decisions on what is good at the moment. they trained people in syria. they are focused on syria. i do not think this nuance is not of great interest to turkey, but it is important when looking and ypg. at the same time, these operations have not encountered in the military way against turkey. there have not been attacks on turkey from syrian territory. they have not -- they have tried to keep the past few years their senior commanders in syria. so the problem is for the united states is that by denying any somethingen the two, that is necessary for u.s. policy, they make it difficult for the u.s. to acknowledge som

co-directed jr used a cardboard cutout of vanguard to represent in hollywood the geo joined up for the documentary faces places they hit the road with a mobile photo studio and travelled through rural france looking for people and the tales they had to town. as this is the film already won the most popular international documentary award at the twenty seven team vancouver international film festival. it's her and a another artist jr who falls and they are separated by decades age wise but they're very similar in the way they look at the world i think that's very very interesting she takes she finds a bridge between them and shows symbolically how can be a bridge between between people last year. already received an honorary oscar for her life's work now with her co-director she's been nominated in the best documentary category. the recognition is for scenes like these abandoned houses they discovered in southern france they were never finished and already indicated may encourage residents from the next village to transform the place into a work of art which. she's very focused on thing

you were there, to present the vanguard award. it was a fantastic night. >> it was.ight, still ahead -- >>> how to get a body like britney and katie. the ab-tastic workout that whipped them into shape. >>> then, at home with sharon and ozzy osbourne, gushing about their new grand baby and why ozzy's touring days are numbered. >> plus -- >> i need you to burp me. >> amy schumer is a woman transformed. only we're behind the scenes of her new comedy. >> did you see that? >> yes. >> i'm beautiful! >>> closed captioning provided by -- i like these yogurt bites. (phone buzzing) and i like these yogurt bites... ah... ooh! apparently, i like them more than i like my phone. where...ah, oh! hello? ah, i missed it. ...my mother-in-law. i'll call her back. don't tell her i told you that. you'll like them both but love our price. award-winning little journey baby essentials from aldi. simply smarter shopping. aah! ...i would have said you were crazy. but so began the year of me. i discovered the true meaning of paperless discounts... and the indescribable rush of saving drivers a

you were there, to present the vanguard award. it was a fantastic night. >> it was.ighall right, still ahead >>> how to get a body like britney and katie. the ab-tastic workout that whipped them into shape. >>> then, at home with sharon and ozzy osbourne, gushing about their new grand baby and why ozzy's touring days are numbered. >> plus -- >> i need you to burp me. >> amy schumer is a woman transformed. only we're behind the scenes of her new comedy. >> did you see that? >> yes. >> i'm beautiful! >>> closed captioning provided by -- ♪ ♪ with the chase mobile app, michaela deprince could pay practically anyone, at any bank, all while performing a grand jetÉ between two grand pianos. she could... in a commercial. in real life she uses it to pay her sister, from her couch, for that sweater she stained. what sweater? (phone buzzes) life, lived michaela's way. chase. make more of what's yours. >>> why are you dressed like a baby? >> it's actually not about how i'm dressed. this is a full lifestyle change. >> yeah, well, amy also makes a radical lifestyle change in her n

you were there, to present the vanguard award. it was a fantastic night. >> it was.ighall right, still ahead >>> how to get a body like britney and katie. the ab-tastic workout that whipped them into shape. >>> then, at home with sharon and ozzy osbourne, gushing about their new grand baby and why ozzy's touring days are numbered. >> plus -- >> i need you to burp me. >> amy schumer is a woman transformed. only we're behind the scenes of her new comedy. >> did you see that? >> yes. >> i'm beautiful! >>> closed captioning provided by -- >>> why are you dressed like a baby? >> it's actually not about how i'm dressed. this is a full lifestyle change. >> yeah, well, amy also makes a radical lifestyle change in her new movie. it's a comedy called "i feel pretty." the film didn't get made. after reading the script, amy wanted abby cohen to jump on a google hangout to say she was in, but cohen couldn't figure out the technology. but they got it to work, and we can see the finished product. >> dj, hit it. that scene was so fun and really empowering to shoot for me. >> amy goe

that there -- vanguard says that the inflation trends will continue and it doesn't really matter if they failed to reach the price target soon. >> the australian container company reported a jump in profits from a benefits in tax cuts. they came in at $450 million in the company sees growth in the .id-single digits the government expects to take advantage of stronger revenue with the tax framework. up next.ve this is bloomberg. not: 30 and the markets are opening and 30 minutes. .hey are pretty soft i am paul allen. is 5:30 and you are watching daybreak australia. let's get the news from singapore. >> trump has tweeted that russia has created discord, disruption, and chaos within the system. he had previously questioned if they were behind efforts to meddle in the election, something he replayed it during another tweet, referencing his comments from the 2016 campaign. revealed details of a coordinated effort to influence the united states election. 65 people on board are feared dead. it came down in a mountainous the place0 miles from it took off. own by the civil service and specializes

the yellow is vanguard. this happens all the time. products, because of the short position that is legit, they do better in these selloffs. if you expect a rough time going forward, these alternatives and factor etf's that do it with a short position are going to outperform. but over the past several years, this thing has lacked a lot. if you point out, there are so many levels of the pure factor you are getting in the factory etf's. factor, and then you get all the way to vanguard, which is less. you do not want to go too far out. eric: yes. what makes a good factor investing strategy and what else are two different things. [laughter] scarlet: that might account for the lack of assets as well. then you have downside hedged etf's, which could be problematic in biology market -- biology markets? -- markets? let's all the s&p 500, but we are going to sprinkle in some vix futures depending on signals. up a lot, was actually 4%. it did very well. scarlet: that is a white line there. >> yes, that little bit of vix was powerful. so much, yo

there is a vanguard, be it black or any race, that want to help. people are scared to do with the president because he will tweak them, he will be nasty to them, and he is a different breed. but the breed that is coming. in understand this breed -- coming in understand this breed. even paul ryan has to knowledge that the president's language is different, and how he approaches things. it is a different day in washington. covering this white house, i believe the goalpost has been moved, and i don't know if it will ever come back. this has been a shift. nia-malika: can you -- yamiche: can you imagine a president that didn't tweet? before questioning whether he was really doing it. april: obama's tweeting was different than this. nia-malika: that's the point -- yamiche: that's the point. can we go back to an obama style president? if the next president says his team's handling twitter. nia-malika: there could be twitter fatigue after this president, and whoever the president is is going to shape the presidency, and the way obama did. obama did not set

and the consultant pigs are in the vanguard. the ones pocketing all the money we've saved. the basel carnival is still celebrated exactly the way it has been for the last one hundred fifty years there are a strict rules for the cortege the afternoon parades. spectators are requested not to wear costumes nor are they allowed to sing and sway along. thinking that although that's probably the main thing that sense that apart from other cannibals the separation between the actual participants and the spectators but we're doing it for their benefit. from the floats the vagas throw treats into the crowds. the cortez also features flute players and drummers as as well. the good music. they play mainly gold novelties and evergreens but in their own special way. basel carnival is now listed with unesco's intangible cultural heritage of humanity something the clique's are deeply proud of. that in that it doesn't change anything for our specifically but it's really a recognition of this local tradition one that centuries old. after exactly seventy two hours the carnival will be over b

that's three times less than fidelity... ...and four times less than vanguard.hat's next, no minimums? ...no minimums. schwab has lowered the cost of investing again. introducing the lowest cost index funds in the industry with no minimums. i bet they're calling about the schwab news. schwab. a modern approach to wealth management. >> all right. what is it with all of these prominent republicans who are getting out of dodge? congressman rdowdy on the list. increasing that they don't want to be in washington. >> it seems that everyone is headed for the doors. a lot more than we see. ray dowdy says he's going back to the justice system. in a statement he said, quote, whatever skills i may have are better utilized in a courtroom than in congress. i enjoy our justice system more than our political system. dowdy is not the only lawmaker headed out the door. the same week he announced his retirement at least two others in the house did as well. so as you said, neil, the question is why are so many stepping down? in all, 41 house republicans say they will retire, run f

there is a vanguard, be it black or white or any race, that wants to help. and some that say no, because this is not the best thing because just how -- people are scared to deal with this president because he will tweet them. he will be nasty to them. and he's a different breed. but the breed that's coming in understands this breed. it's a different political game now. it's a different white house. it's a different way to handle things. paul ryan acknowledged that the president's language is different and how he approaches things. there's a different day in washington. and covering this white house, i really believe that the goalpost has been moved and i don't know if it will ever come back. there's a change. this has been a shift. >> can you imagine a president that doesn't tweet? now -- >> the tweets, if he really wrote it, the one time you saw him at the computer typing a tweet, obama is social media doing it. >> obama's tweeting was different than this. >> that's the point. what i'm saying is could we go back to an obama-style president. >> he's not obam

that's three times less than fidelity... ...and four times less than vanguard.hat's next, no minimums? ...no minimums. schwab has lowered the cost of investing again. introducing the lowest cost index funds in the industry with no minimums. i bet they're calling about the schwab news. schwab. a modern approach to wealth management. copdso to breathe better,athe. i go with anoro. ♪go your own way copd tries to say, "go this way." i say, "i'll go my own way" with anoro. ♪go your own way once-daily anoro contains two medicines called bronchodilators, that work together to significantly improve lung function all day and all night. anoro is not for asthma . it contains a type of medicine that increases risk of death in people with asthma. the risk is unknown in copd. anoro won't replace rescue inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than once a day. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition, high blood pressure, glaucoma, prostate, bladder, or urinary problems. these may worsen with anoro. call your doctor if you have worsened breathing, chest p

tradition of marxist leninist order and control and continues to believe that fundamentally it is a vanguard's that understands where the country should should head and that many ordinary people do not and of course is fundamentally not a very democratic way of looking at it and that represents i think of a of a serious obstacle even with those people who say normally speaking that they commit to reform the mindset remains one of people ultimately must follow and the leadership decides and that culture political culture and so on just something that's within the party but of particular ever they're absolutely important to me at this point it would be quite useful i think for so explain to look at this time ethnic federalism which of course is the system under which it has been governed for around twenty five years and say it was the vision of the former prime minister of course the the architect if you like of melissa nally explain what it is in simple terms well very simply put it was melissa's oncet to the fundamental problem that ethiopia in the nineteenth century was an empire in which man

vanguard was almost in the background of the flows.hose flows for people coming in every month, drip to madrid. they were third in terms of issuers taking in money. they were not even the top five. that means a lot of the trading crowd came in. 1000 etf's took in cash. that means there was a death to this low, it was not just people it -- hitting by. >> all right. thank you. vonnie: thank you. ahead, how apple earnings left a sour taste in investors mounts. weak spam and that, next. this is bloomberg. >> i cover the restaurant industry for bloomberg news in new york. chicken wing lovers can rest easy. prices have dropped in time for sunday's super bowl after spiking to a record high in september. prices have dropped 25% and are selling at the lowest price for this time of year. good news for football fans and buffalo wild wings and wing stop. bake spec to sell 30 million wings sunday. wing stop started getting ready in june. the ceo said he had never seen prices spike so much. he blamed the popularity of wings. with some restaurants dr

most of corruptions any other how can a union and association like yours help to be the sort of vanguard of this movement against austerity well it can help in several ways i mean you can launch the campaign that we have that we're talking about here in this interview. it's crucial to act collectively social workers can't absentee on their own you're frightened of being demonized by the press i suspect we should be supported by the press for taking such action. for speaking up on behalf of service users people the poorest in society to say that. to say that people should be treated more fairly that should be social justice a consummation any right thinking newspaper would think differently than that. thank you well from getting out of storage in the u.k. to class war in space now fifty two years of their first apollo program saturn test flight we caught up with britain's first astronauts in space helen sharman written out of some subsequent narratives arguably because of russian involvement sherman spoke to me at london's royal society helen sharman allegedly to take us back to there was

stuff like vanguard etf would get a green light. stuff in the middle would get a yellow light.s is probably needed. i think that blackrock does not want this to sustain their etf business am a which they would call basically mutual funds. i call it the exotic weighing of products that could hurt you if you don't know what you are doing. they should be labeled. can we get to yesterday and even a product like that would not be able to save you wants the velocity picks up in the 3:00 hour. you would not have had time to sit down and have a cup of coffee and read any research at that point. eric: it went down in a hurry. 99% in one day. xiv had returned in the two years leading up. those returns are outlandish. it looks like it made up for all of that in one day. it kind of did its job. the second month vix futures spiked up the same amount. not going to close this thing, it did what it did, it was not a good day. we will keep it open and not have any problems. terminationutomatic clause in the offering documents that said that it can terminate it if it gets to a point where it is