still with us, victoria defrancesco soto and susan del percio.ecame the third republican who voted for impeachment to retire. did he have a choice here? >> not really, because first of all, new york isn't a democratically controlled when it comes to redistricting. his seat was not looking promising for him, especially since new york is, in fact, losing one congressional seat. add to that he was a target for conservatives. new york state has conservative party that was actively challenging him, and a primary was sure to happen. the ironic part is that he's someone who is seen as a centrist. he did better in 2020 in a democratic district than joe biden did by one point. so he is someone who could win a swing district, and yet the republicans will probably put up with conservatives that cannot. >> vickie, i think we all understand what donald trump's re-emergence means for republicans. what does it mean for democrats in 2022? >> well, i think -- let me back up, alicia, and really remark on how incredible the strategy is that donald trump is putting

back to us tonight, victoria defrancesco soto from the university of arkansas and matthew dowd, former george w. bush strategist. good evening to both of you. victoria, your evaluation of how things are going in trump world as it relates very specifically to his efforts to challenge democracy in this country. >> look, it was a terrible week for donald trump if and his family, hard stop. that being said, ali, i'm firmly in the camp of urging caution in saying, okay, this is the end of it for trump and his seeking of power in 2024 and beyond. many have said he has nine lives. that manifest is. a, but dig deeper and what when you're trying to prove fraud, that's difficult. trump is his family and organization are laura up to the hilt. and then the other piece of this is what we've seen over the last five years, that trump is a survivor. we saw him survive two impeachments, the mueller investigation. add onto that that he does well in the court of public opinion, that public opinion of his party, the base of the gop that has shifted to the trump brand. so put all those pieces together and,

back with us tonight, victoria defrancesco says go soto, dean of -- at the university of arkansas. and, msnbc political and in this, -- former george w. bush strategist, and founder of country over party, good evening to both of you. victoria, let's start with you. your evaluation of how things are going in trump world, as it relates, very specifically, to his efforts to challenge democracy? >> it was a terrible week for donald trump and his family. hard stop. that being said, i'm firmly in the camp of urging caution, saying, okay, this is end of it for trump, and his speaking of power in 2024. he, many have said he is non lives, i think that metaphor is absolutely right. what's fair is the fact when you're trying to prove fraud, that's a difficult. trump and his family, and his organization or lawyer up the hill. the other piece of this, what we've seen over the last five years, trump is a survivor. we saw him survive two impeachments, the mueller investigation. add on to that that he does well in the court of public opinion. that public opinion of his party, of the base of the gop