joining us for more now on what investors should make of all of these trade headlines, katherine rooney vieiraresearch at bolta capital markets and zander lurie. >> he's got all sorts of mocnkey and surveys on this. >> which is good i mentioned to andrew, katherine, i found out it was december 10th and that the -- >> found out >> yeah, i did. >> research. >> yeah, i did it quickly. looked at the new hampshire. december 15th. what do we know? what do you expect, katherine? it matters, doesn't it >> yeah, talk is cheap, as you said, joe, before. the media seems to move like a yo-yo with every facet of this negotiation which it effectively is usmca is a very good precedent for a chinese trade deal we're going to get something december 15th, it's a very good chance the tariffs could happen. my question is do the markets even react if they react 2 to 5%, i think it's a buying opportunity. if we get that completion of the tariff scheme because what will subsequently come if we get the tariffs and if the markets react to the down side, joe, is more likely than not words coming out from both sides, we