a confidential document that they managed to obtain, and let's we will discuss all this with vitaly shabunin, he is the chairman of the board of the anti-corruption center, mr. vitaly, congratulations and thank you for joining us in the evening, it is late, and the topic is really corruption, we see that it worries many people both in ukraine and in its borders, and what do you think that now, is there really a lot of ukraine now? what is being done, this is what matthew miller said in order to overcome corruption, and these steps are noticeable, this is your opinion, are they noticeable or not? visible, whether ukraine does a lot, ukraine does, whether it does enough, by electronic declaration, when the parliament voted to restore the declaration, but without the declarations being public, respectively. it made no sense, because society, you journalists, could not check these declarations, and only under the pressure of society the president did not veto, and the deputies were forced to overvote the draft law, and unfortunately there have been many such cases, i do not remember the last 10

onslaught and continues to hold on in these difficult times, now we will add to the conversation vitaly shabuninti-corruption center, mr. vitaly, congratulations good evening , let's talk about the law on politically significant persons that was adopted, the draft law that was adopted by the verkhovna rada of ukraine, immediately there were a lot of complaints about this, well, some praise. someone does not praise, it is about the occasion how people who, well , joined the work for the state, and not too long after they held this or that position, should report their earnings. about your expenses, please explain, is it a victory or a defeat, well, the only thing that is good, well, not the only thing that is good, is that this draft law has removed all obstacles for the start of negotiations on joining the european union and for the tranche of the international monetary fund, but is there somewhere here, someone was not offended and someone's rights were not affected, please, eh, it's about that top officials become risky clients for the bank. this means that while they are in their position and

vitaly, thank you for comments, thank you for clarifying, vitaly shabunin was with us, the head of the anti-corruption center, i wish you a good evening, i really just want to add that you know this, there are certain rules that you have to live by, and then you can to achieve something, if you do it like this, according to the scheme, you get a mercedes, if you do it differently, you get a zhiguli, or if you do it like this, you get... good for a drink or good clothes, or a good banking system, and if you do, for example, differently, you will succeed, well, not at all another story, then after 30 years of independence they ask me why i am in nato , well, or some others, or why our salaries are not like in germany, or not even like in poland, well, because, because there are certain rules, on which someone lived, but you did not live on them, because you can steal, you can not pay taxes, and then the pensions are small, because you pay taxes, that's why they are small, one of my acquaintances said, so wait, what else don't give to oligarchs, i say no, it's from taxes, well , that's al