nonsense, and by the way, interest rates were sky high, you've heard of the thing called the paul voelker and-- >> and let's talk about right now, let's talk about the idea though that americans, charlie, are rejecting this notion that the average person out there does not think that raising taxes-- >> they are, because they don't like the fact -- like i said, i believe that americans wouldn't mind paying higher taxes, clearly, i wouldn't, we don't see fiscal restraint out of washington and why should we raise taxes when the problem is cutting the size of government and one other thing, adam is completely wrong. >> oh, bring adam back in. >> i don't want my taxes to go up. i'm willing to give up something in terms of spending cuts, but that's the-- this country, you want the size of government, and i'm talking about federal spending in terms of the size of our economy, if you want it back down to where it's been historically. >> you're not listening to charles. you're going to have to give up something. and very often it turns to people want to cut spending until it involves something-- >

. >> real fear of dodd frank and the voelker rule, and it's also partially worries about taxes and theis a clear divide between obama and romney and the truth is also if you are a wall street millionaire, your taxes will be significantly higher if obama is re-elected. that is a real personal reason to support romney. >> i want to take a look at the top donor groups for the president because the president has a lot more than just hollywood on his side. take a look at the top five contributeors to his campaign. microsoft, university of california, the law firm dla piper, google, and har vrd university. what's your read on that in terms of individuals of those institutions giving to the president? >> well, i think, you know, we do have to remember romney is out raising obama, and this is really significant, and if you look at the super pacts, it's an even bigger deal. they're not on equal footing, and that is really significant because incumbents usually outraise challengers. i think the people who are backing obama, it's hollywood, it's technology, and it's what you might call the libera

. >> what we need is a moment that we had back in the early 90s with reagan and voelker where reaganr that allowed them to raise rates to choke ip flagsary expectations while reagan unleashed better fiscal policy, lower taxes, lower regulation, and increased spending. we need the same type of combination here, better fiscal policy that will allow the fed to start coming off of this extraordinary easy accommodative stance that they're in. >> at the same time just to your point, what the fed is effectively doing is keeping it in the market and saying everything that bernanke has said and signaled is consistent with this idea and the second conditions warrant are worsened just a little bit more than they are now. >> there are many people that have mortgage backed securities on the assumption they would start buying them, too, and they are disappointing those people in the market, are they not? >> definitely. the fiscal side you won't see until after the election anyway. >> does this lead you to any trade that's much different? the dow is clearly losing its gain here. the dollar is up a

. >> disabled veterans action i hear, on the voelker system, too, and they kicked them off of that becauseon't have any access toss to health care. they want somebody to fight for them. >> those cuts in the budget, the cuts to the va haven't been talked about nearly enough, john. i am glad you raised that point. again, that's part of the ryan budget, which is now the romney budget. right? >> his plan. >> that's what he is bringing to the american people. >> compensation four people go, they want to go into iran. right? they want to take care of these people if they get hurt. you are on your own. >> yeah. absolutely right. iraq and afghanistan are not enough. they want a third war in iran. and i think it's important that we not let romney get away with trying to con the american people into saying no. no. no. i love paul ryan. but i am not necessarily embracing his bucket. yes, you are. in fact, we can remind mitt romney who called the ryan budget "mavelous" his word which tells me something else about mitt romney. he has embraced the budget. now he has embraced the man as well. this is the