so when you look at sort of the whole lifecycle of the process, vulnerabilityown but there are likely other vulnerabilities that are equally problematic. >> go ahead. i hope the panel can comment. alex has worked on this issue for a long time and the solution on the voting machine front is the low-tech solution. vote on paper. look at paper. but the problem seems to be political in getting to the solutions. to nato allies have moved paper. the french election, they used electronic voting but they stopped at an face of the threat. the dutch move to paper and hand-counted the paper in the last election. but we are struggling at the national level to get a voluntary grant available to states so that they can maybe switch to paper said they can do

so when you look at sort of the whole lifecycle of the process, vulnerabilityown but there are likely other vulnerabilities that are equally problematic. >> go ahead. i hope the panel can comment. alex has worked on this issue for a long time and the solution on the voting machine front is the low-tech solution. vote on paper. look at paper. but the problem seems to be political in getting to the solutions. to nato allies have moved paper. the french election, they used electronic voting but they stopped at an face of the threat. the dutch move to paper and hand-counted the paper in the last election. but we are struggling at the national level to get a voluntary grant available to states so that they can maybe switch to paper said they can do post-election audits. if you can talk about how to get a political climate of urgency which just does not seem to be there. >> well, so i think that is one thing i think that is exactly why we're trying to do this. this is exactly why we are partnering with the atlantic council which is one of the preeminent national security organizations and t