w. e. b. dubois with his harvard education and his degree from german university and goes out to the south in the 1890's and says these people have, you know -- i can't think of them as any other way that peasantry which is reason place. identified from the land of the soil this season's. this is the way african-american life will be. we know that in 30 years like people are on their way to becoming an urban population in the u.s. states, identified, you know, not with the black belt of alabama and mississippi, but with the alleys of chicago and the streets of the york and so on. so it is less and immigration, but it is what i call on the book a kind of pattern as we move back and forth between massive dramatic migrations and indeed rootedness in place. while the of and to vacation with place. and i would presume that is going to continue as well. >> host: we have been talking with professor ira berlin about his most recent book, the making of african-americans, the four great migrations. distinguish