sometimes, what wareally happen is people would pay a great deal of money to get into some of the technicalchools, truck driving schools. they want to become a certified businesses and, these low-wage jobs. they pay money to go through the training programs and graduate and find out they are ineligible for those licenses because of their criminal record, or they have a great deal of work they have to do with their criminal records before they will be eligible, and they just spent a lot of money because the schools took their money. the horse -- horrors about what happened were discussed. i talked about the man riding a bicycle than the street and what that meant for his future. >> there are significant barriers for folks who have criminal history records. would you agree we need criminal record reform? if so, why? >> i think -- first, i just want to say a couple of words about what we do. many years ago, i was a legal aid attorney in new york. for the past 20 years, i have been an employment advocate. we practice employment law, mostly on behalf of low-wage workers, and we kind of got into