warren sapp is a legendary nfl defensive player. the joe pa statue must come down but figuratively we can't look at him the same. the legacy is ruined. this is mr. integrity in college football a land that's not known for integrity. this is mr. i teach character to children who have the most stunning lapse of character in what would seem to be the most obvious situation but because he had so much power it was allowed to go on for so long. >> that's one thing that the report brought up was the culture of reverence and the report specifically addressed one of the things that needs to change at penn state is cultural. >> yeah. i speak as somebody who, from my personal perspective, you know, there was my top sporting interest my whole life was penn state football from the time i was young until last october. >> has this changed it? >> it's gone completely. >> you won't watch the games any more. >> i'm hardly alone in this. we talk about what's the future of penn state football. can they even have a football program after this? at a cert

warren sapp tweeted they should take down paterno's statue. do you have any thoughts on that?>> again, it's there. i'm looking for moving the forward. that's not going to get us where we need to get. let's put the program on probation. let's give them the death penalty. but this is beyond just ncaa. this is criminal. this is criminal. >> is it a wakeup call? it should be. should universities around the country with powerful programs put systems in place where they can't be overrun by the man? >> absolutely. but the problem is many institutions are so beholden they're at a catch-22. but you're right, it is a wake-up call. >> living in new york now i got to pick between the jets and the giants. i know you cover them both. >> is there a choice? >> i have to have you back. we have to talk about it. we're getting real close to training camp. thanks so much from "the new york times. >> ed, you are free to root for the patriots. >> oh, gosh. well, i'll tell you what, i'm getting my viking contingency fired up soon here.