he doesn't pay off evil for their votes, the way they do in wasmovie, but as i explaining to john ine car, on the way over, that he is thaddeus stevens knew how to get laws passed. nobody knew better how to get the true north as stevens. a smart guy. that is what we have to understand. these were brilliant politicians. you need those types of people. you have to have politicians that can get things done if you want a democracy to work. yes? a great analysis. i want to ask you, could you say bit more about how lincoln's views, with the politicking, may duringolved over time his presidency? the way you presented it was kind of like, he sort of was on board with abolitionism by the time he became president, then he sort of worked carefully. changed some of his ideas, or he grew more comfortable with certain things. talk a little bit about organic changes. he grows in office. was, his positions in 1860 or more radical than they were in an 18 foot -- 1854. in 1854 he comes back into .olitics with an anti-slavery by the secession crisis, that is not an acceptable position. now, he wants a