it mentioned that abu was waterboard 83 times. khalid mohammed had been waterboard. working in this magical way turning a recalcitrant terror into information. waterboarding had not caused abu zabada talking after 35 seconds. some questions in retrospect about whether it produced any information from abu zabada. the question arose, why did john kiriakou say this. some people actually suspected may be he put up by the cia and this was sort disinformation propaganda about the water boarding. at this point i'm sure that's not true. i think he actually said what he believe and what he had been told. the wrinkle come up more recently that we still don't us fully. the senate intelligence committee had responsibility four years looking at this same program. they have a 6000 page report which remains classified at this point. even the summary something like 325 pages. we only know the basic bottom line findings because a few senators talked about them. we don't know the details. one of the things they've said is there was a lot of disinformation about this interrogation prog

much of what he accomplished from putting troops in saudi arabia to an unjustified war in iraq to waterboarding actually created more enemies with pictures for their war posters. obama is working to fix that. in the terrorism threat where it belongs is a serious threat that should keep us on the alert but not squash individual freedom or international debate. david kon for mother jones magazine, a democratic congressman for pennsylvania, and the first iraq war veteran to serve in the united states congress. both are msnbc contributors. well, let's take a look, gentlemen, at what president obama said yesterday. let's take a look at this part where he rejects the war on terrori terrorism. >> neither i nor any president can promise the total defeat of terror. we will never erase the evil that lies in the hearts of some human beings nor stamp out every danger to our open society, but what we can do, what we must do, is dismantle networks that pose a direct danger to us and make it less likely for new groups to gain a foothold. all the while maintaining the freedoms and ideals that we defend. and to

tommy would have approved controversial programs including enhanced interrogation techniques like waterboarding and the indefinite detention program i think with comi although he enjoyed this almost cinematic hero status because of the showdown with ashcroft over one thing we can't forget that he was in church. a lot of been hints to techniques also known as torture komi is expected nomination come shortly after president obama's speech about drone policy and closing guantanamo bay obama pledge this speech was a step towards ending the war on terrorism overseas but for critics this nomination would be another signal there's more of the same on the way if you look fundamentally at the policies after these announcements it becomes clear that nothing changes but if you listen to the words it sounds like there's something shifting after leaving the justice department coming join the private sector it was a corporate attorney part of lockheed martin and the hadron bridgewater associates confirmed komi what replaced them robert muller as head of the f.b.i. became head of the agency just seven days af

waterboarding, for example. by any definition, it's torture. the justice department called it "enhanced interrogation methods," and it approved seven of them, including waterboarding. >> narrator: al qaeda's khalid sheikh mohammed was waterboarded 183 times. it took reporter dana priest years to piece together where prisoners like khalid sheikh mohammed were. they had been hidden in a secret network of cia prisons known as "black sites." >> priest: in the investigation of the black sites, i found a worldwide system of about two dozen prisons throughout the world run by the cia, paid by the cia, organized by the cia, but with cooperation from other countries. >> narrator: top cia official john rizzo helped authorize the prisons. >> rizzo: creating a prison system was something, certainly in my 25 years, we had never done. it was essential that these people be held in absolute isolation, with... with access to the fewest number of people. that quickly led to the conclusion that... that facilities had to be built oversees, secret facilities. >> na

is speaking out the former cia operative best known for blowing the whistle on the cia's use of waterboarding is speaking out from behind bars and initially charged under the espionage act three months and has thirty month sentence having pled guilty to lesser charges and a letter sent to his attorney just. which was published with his consent to the blog fire dog lake details his experiences inside the federal correctional facility and the rate of concealed gania being designated as a public safety threat kiriakou describing move to surface sentence and the general population rather than a federal work camp as previously discussed kiriakou went on to say that his reputation has preceded him while in laredo and ascribe various run ins with commanding officers one verbal exchange and in the following an hour later for ceo's descended on both of our cells trashing all of our worldly possessions in my first shakedown lesson learned ceos can treat us like subhumans but we have to show them fo respect even if it's not earned. we'll keep you updated on his case as it continues to develop. well the

i think waterboarding is something we should not be in the business of doing. >> why? >> because we are americans and we know better than that. guy whois that -- a meant well and served his in some very dangerous situations. he risked his life to take on al qaeda attacks and take on terrorism. foroing off to prison leaving his young family behind. scott shane on, his feature story "from spy to stores to convict." sunday at eight p.m. on c-span. >> "the communicators" is on is beingill where ces hosted. with my guest. what is this machine are looking at here? >> it will pay. let your electronic and give you cash on the spot. you for youry electronics and give you cash on the spot. it will recycle the phone and resell them to channels that might use them as a phone. we do little bit of both. >> it is your invention? >> it is. a bunch of people help me. >> how did you come up with the idea? >> i was reading a survey that said only 2% of people worldwide were recycling their phones. what happened to the other percent? i figured, why don't i do it? . do love this idea put i

the department of defense at guantanamo waterboarded no one. three people were waterboarded by the agency with the authority of the department of justice and the president. and it seems to me that the president said some things, i believe the phrase i heard earlier was something to the effect that al qaeda has been gutted. and that just simply isn't true. al qaeda is still effective. we have killed or captured any number of al qaeda leadership, and they get replaced. someone comes on behind them. >> you think the threat is the same today as it was in 2001 and 2002? >> no, of course it's evolved somewhat. the problem we've got is that the -- we don't know precisely what the situation is, and the reason is we know the number of people that have been killed or captured. we don't know the number of people that have been recruited. we don't know the number that are being trained. we don't know the amount of money that the al qaeda and their affiliates are raising every year from supporters. we don't know the number of madrases that are teaching peop

. >> of course it led to such excesses of waterboarding and torture. you know, i think the comment you just played from the aei speech which was eight years or so after 9/11 in which he said there are no half measure, all or nothing, shows the mindset. the world doesn't tend to work in all or nothing terms. >> yesterday president obama in his speech took a clear ideal ahead of and a danger to distorting that threat. let's listen. >> in years to come, not every collection of thugs that labels themselves al qaeda will pose a credible threat to the united states. unless we discipline our thinking, our definitions, our actions, we may be drawn into more wars we don't need to fight. >> there we have it, pat. the we of what we can do here. i've always thought, i'm not an expert, but i've studied this story like everybody has, that the claim and purpose of al qaeda was draw the world into an east/west war. everybody involved in this and it would never end until there'd be something established and that was their goal. to the extend we show discipline and refu

of ways like waterboarding. electroshocks imo selfless couple times hunger strike in doing my time in rooms in office so i can understand those detainees over the. more than eleven years over there they still didn't have to try and if you are in the system it's very difficult to get even even if they go home and notice that you are innocent. ninety five percent of those prisoners already know what has to try and they still are not getting a trial for the future that's mean they can stay all their life over there even if they are innocent i myself i think it's going to be the last time a strike for the most attorneys. i believe they will know will start again to eat. talk he's been following the hunger strike from the very beginning now well before us authours even admitted it was taking place we've been gathering comments from prison officials and detainees attorneys and activists give you a full account of the situation and all that plus the timeline on the protest all available for you on our web site www dot

of ways like waterboarding. electroshocks i'm also a couple times hunger strike and doing my time and going to normal so i can understand those detainees already more than eleven years over there they still didn't have to try and if you are in the system it's very difficult to get even even if they go home and knows that you are innocent. ninety five percent of those prisoners already never had the trial and they still are not getting a trial for the future that's mean they can stay all their life over there even if they're innocent. and we've also heard from many of the inmates are lawyers and one of them clive stafford smith who represents federal prisoners so it's ridiculous to keep detainees locked up just to prevent them from telling their story but talking about as you well know eighty six of one hundred sixty six prisoners have been cleared for release that's fifty two percent of men third and most of the people i represent there's only one way to end the strike fairly and that is to take the prisoners wh

of ways like waterboarding until electroshocks i myself was couple times hunger strike and doing my time in granton almost so i can understand those detainees already more than eleven years over there they still didn't have to try and if you are in the system it's very difficult to get out even even if they go home and knows that you are innocent. ninety five percent of those prisoners already never had the trial and they still are not getting a trial for the future that's mean they can stay all their life over there even if they are innocent i myself i think it's going to be the last time a strike for the most the time he's. i believe they will never start again. and he has been following the hunger strike from the very beginning before the u.s. authorities even admitted it was taking place we're been gathering comments from prison officials detainees attorneys and activists to give you a full account of the situation or that the timeline or the protest are very little on our website r.t. dot com. and actually another reason to close guantanamo bay is its cost because right now this is

what we stood for i think if you look at the attitude today after abu ghraib and guantanamo and waterboarding and drone strikes would people do that now would they trust the americans are the good guys that are going to do the right thing so that having this reputation that general just described is not in the interest of the united states and particularly its military forces and you know last time you were on i asked you about you know is obama kind of opting to just kill people abroad instead of detaining them it simply go away bad press and merely weeks after that john bellinger the drone architect in the obama administration came out at a think tank where you're going to speech and said how obama is trying to avoid the bad press and that's why as as kind of this drone warfare i mean. look at him commentary is that on our policy also you had harold koh who is the state department's legal adviser for four years who was on the leading critics of president bush became a part of the administration and signed off on these procedures he's out of the administration now gave a talk last week in ox

against them is not permissible in court like if the authorities got a confession but they used waterboarding to get it so that leaves eighty six other prisoners cleared for release yet remaining get no block by congress the congress does allow for an individual to be released if it's in the interest of national security so right now right now the president can order the pentagon to use this loophole to get those eighty six prisoners out of get now fifty six of those eighty six prisoners cleared for release sort. transfer are from yemen a country barred by the administration from receiving detainees so the president would have to lift this ban next the president and let the courts do his work for him there have been more than one hundred a.b.'s corpus cases filed on behalf of get no prisoners by groups like the center for constitutional rights so he the president can instruct his justice department to not fight these court cases essentially giving him a good no plaintiff's a win that would lead to either their release or an actual trial and finally the president can actually make closing gitm

at the time i thought waterboarding was something we need to do.s time has passed and 9/11 has moved into history, i have changed my mind and i think waterboarding is not something we should be in the business of doing. >> why do you say that now? >> because we are americans and we are better than that. >> this is a guy who by most accounts served his country well in dangerous situations, who risked his life to take on al qaeda and pakistan and to take on terrorism before that, and he is going off to prison for 30 months, leaving his young family behind. scotts weekend on "q&a," shane on the story of a jailed security officer. sunday at 8:00 on c-span. she is the first first lady to earn a college degree, and during the civil war, soldiers serving under her husband called her the mother of the regiment. opposing slavery, she influences her husband to switch from the whig party to the anti-slavery republican party, and she is also the one who started the first annual white house easter egg roll. the first lady of rutherford b. hayes. also on c-span

interesting analogy, president obama said his first term cia employees would not be investigated for waterboarding people. i assume he doesn't take taxes more seriously than he does torture. they previously have followed this precedent that people follow these orders even if they might be wrong. i expect that's what they will say here. where you will trip the wire, and it often happens in wal washington, is where officials lie. it's simply lying to someone in a federal investigation. that's where people trip wires. there is no indication that is likely to happen here. so the most likely conclusion is no one will be charged if you look at history. >> let me ask you about the other side of this that is what eric holder will have to answer to, if he can, now he is absolving himself of this associated press issue as well. when it comes to the -- what the justice department is able to discuss at this point. the associated press is extremely worried about how vast -- and i mentioned this a moment ago with joe john -- how vast this investigation was and the record seizing was. isn't the law very specific

torture techniques including waterboarding as well as for helping oversees the prolonged -- helping oversee the prolonged indefinite detention of u.s. citizen jose padilla without charge or trial. the aclu concludes -- thousands of protesters with the havevist movement blockuppy blocked access to the european central bank in frankfurt, germany and a protest against european austerity. the demonstrators were confronted by scores of police in riot gear. the unemployment rate in eurozone tons to wrote -- new record of a 12.2%. more than 19 million people in europe were out of work in april. hundreds of garment workers protested thursday outside a factory that makes clothing for nike. most of the workers were women and have been striking to demand a $14 a month pay increase. at least 23 garment workers or injured monday by military police wielding stun batons. the workers outlined their demands with one describing how she miscarried following the clash with police. >> i was pushed by the military policeman and fell on the ground in front of the factory that day, then i lost the baby. >> i prote

. >> election rigging, waterboarding, backstabbing. >> you should not have tried to screw me!d hopping in the white house. also known as just another day in the white house for the characters on the hit tv show "scandal." the series stars kerry washington as olivia pope, the head of a d.c. crisis management firm. >> you know what i always say, if it's serious, get olivia on it. >> in just two seasons "scandal" has gained a loyal and huge following of fans. last week pope's forbidden love affair with the president helped reel in almost 9 million viewers. >> the republic will -- >> if you're wondering who to thank for your insatiable appetite look no further than executive producer shonda rhimes. i recently got a chance to sit down with the creative force behind abc's smash hit. >> "scandal" is based on legendary washington, d.c. crisis management expert judy smith whose handled monica lewinsky. >> uh-huh. >> what is it about her story that intrigued you, that sold you? >> it wasn't just who she handled. when she talks about her process and why she does what she does and how she

one man's waterboarding is another man's green tea naval irrigation flush. >> bill: save it for next wednesday. >> you always forget that's why i had to shoot it in. good luck at the little league field tonight. >> bill: on deck. woman under attack in oregon calls 911. >> is he still there? >> yes. he is. >> okay. do you want to stay on the phone with me until we figure out what he is -- might do or can you ask him to leave? >> bill: a report that will make you angry moments away. @í0x;ñt >> bill: back ever the book segment tonight. did you see that? we begin with unbelievable situation in oregon. a county there has run out of money and can no longer protect people from crime. >> i don't have anybody to send out there. >> okay. >> you know, obviously, if he comes inside the residence and assaults you, can you ask him to go away or do you know if he is intoxicated or anything? >> i have already asked him. i already told him i was calling you. he has broke in before broke down my door and assaulted me. >> um-huh. is there any way you can safely leave the residence? >> no. i can't. be

one man's waterboarding is another man's green tea naval irrigation flush. >> bill: save it for next wednesday. >> you always forget that's why i had to shoot it in. good luck at the little league field tonight. >> bill: on deck. woman under attack in oregon calls 911. >> is he still there? >> yes. he is. >> okay. do you want to stay on the phone with me until we figure out what he is -- might do or can you ask him to leave? >> bill: a report that will make you angry moments away. ♪ [ male announcer ] when the a.c. goes out in a heat wave, it's nuccio heating and air conditioning that comes to the rescue. at&t helped nuccio put a complete mobile solution to work. mobile routing to send the closest technician and mobile payments to invoice on the spot. where do you want to take your business? call us. we can show you how at&t solutions can help you do what you do... even better. ♪ >> bill: back ever the book segment tonight. did you see that? we begin with unbelievable situation in oregon. a county there has run out of money and can no longer protect people from crime. >> i don't have

in 2002 the justice department approved the use of interrogation techniques like waterboarding and extremeeprivation. three years later, congress banned enhanced interrogations by the military. the cia could continue to use the techniques, but it was a subject of much debate and uncertainty. >> i can say without exception or equivocation that the united states will not torture. >> then on his second day in office in 2009, president barack obama signed an executive order outlawing these coercive techniques. >> there we go. >> all future interrogations by anyone in the u.s. government had to follow the strict guidelines of the army field manual. so the million dollar question. did coercive technique lead to osama bin laden? once again, our intelligence experts weigh in. >> the site that i visited was probably the grimmest blase i have ever been. ran the counterterrorism center from 2004 to 2006. >> it's a business when you are, again, for understandable reasons, sequestering people who you believe have information, actionable information, which if you're able to acquire it, will save lives.

. >> woodruff: a year later, comey tried, unsuccessfully, to limit waterboarding and other enhanced interrogationhods used on terror suspects. since leaving the justice department, he's served as a corporate attorney, first at lockheed martin, and later at the hedge fund bridgewater associates. those ties to business may raise questions for some. in a statement last night, republican senator chuck grassley of iowa said: comey is also sure to face confirmation questions about how he would handle leaks of sensitive information. the obama justice department is now under scrutiny for its tough tactics with journalists. comey addressed the subject in a speech in 2007. >> troop movements, search warrants about to be executed, the undercover identify of a covert operative with the c.i.a., some things can't leak. the flip side of that is when they do leak, the government has to do something about it. has to. because we care about the rule of law, we care about some >> woodruff: if he is nominated and confirmed, comey would replace the current f.b.i. director robert mueller, who assumed the agency's top s

progressives have had problems with comey in the past for other issues, a murky role in authorizing the waterboarding the nomination process is going to go? >> i think barring disclosures we don't know yet smoothly for republicans. served in a republican administration. contributed to john mccain and mitt romney's presidential campaigns. but for democrats here is a political figure to head the fbi who should have an easy confirmation process at the time. the white house would like to get immigration through the congress. >> where do you see opposition coming from or at least tough questions? do you think more liberals? >> any tough questions are going to be grandstanding. we just saw the best audition tape ever and you'll see why the president doesn't get a bipartisan halo. this is someone nonpartisan. we're told specifically senator schumer who might be inclined to ask tough questions really likes comey and has a good relationship with him. this is also a very personal pick for the president. as you know most people the president nominates he never sees again, probably doesn't think about again. the

. >> not things like waterboarding, not things that exacerbated the tensions between us and the muslimsome of the things that were done during the bush era that the president -- president obama specifically outlawed were part of what reradicalized, i believe -- >> let me -- >> some guys will say we did it because of drone attacks. as tom cotton says there's always an excuse to attack the united states. >> the backdrop of all of this, harold ford jr., is what the president is facing in terms of his own leadership in his second term as he builds a legacy. at a press conference this week in which one of our colleagues asked do you still have the juice to get it done. this is part of what he said. >> i think it comes to no surprise not only to the american people but even members of congress themselves that right now things are pretty dysfunctional up on capitol hill. >> you seem to suggest that somehow these folks over there have no responsibilities and that my job is to somehow get them to behave. that's their job. >> is he a lame duck, harold? >> no. he, i think -- no. i sense his frust

. >> of course it led to such excesses of waterboarding and torture. you know, i think the comment you just played from the aei speech which was eight years or so after 9/11 in which he said there are no half measure, all or nothing, shows the mindset. the world doesn't tend to work in all or nothing terms. i think what the president was doing yesterday, i liked the word you used at the beginning, chris, was putting this in perspective. everything in life is often a balancing act. you could have -- we could go even further on security measures at airports and elsewhere than we have gone so far if you want to try to have more security. but we have to balance that against freedom and liberties and civil liberties. and cheney was basically arguing at aei, you go all out or it doesn't matter. yesterday it was interesting when obama started talking about, there are different types of terrorism. there are these international groups we have to target and there are the small cells we may not be able to do much about before they strike. and we have to keep all

one man's waterboarding is another man's green tea naval irrigation flush. >> bill: save it for nextyou always forget that's why i had to shoot it in. good luck at the little league field tonight. >> bill: on deck. woman under attack in oregon calls 911. >> is he still there? >> yes. he is. >> okay. do you want to stay on the phone with me until we figure out what he is -- might do or can you ask him to leave? >> bill: a report that will make you angry moments away. advil pm® or tylenol pm. the advil pm® guy is spending less time lying awake with annoying aches and pains and more time asleep. advil pm®. the difference is a better night's sleep. since aflac is helping with his expenses while he can't work, he can focus on his recovery. he doesn't have to worry so much about his mortgage, groceries, or even gas bills. kick! kick... feel it! feel it! feel it! nice work! ♪ you got it! you got it! yes! aflac's gonna help take care of his expenses. and us...we're gonna get him back in fighting shape. ♪ [ male announcer ] see what's happening behind the scenes at ducktherapy.com. >> bill: b

and, eventually, the pourings of water used in waterboarding became times.became 183 times, which is crazy. >> look, it's not f.b.i. versus c.i.a. i know for a fact that everything that we've been told that resulted because of water boarding. that's not true. >> only three terrorists with american blood on their hands were ever water boarded. >> in many cases, it was just a few days. in these cases, it was just a few weeks. >> this program evolved. some of the stuff that they tried to do is not working. and during the evolution process, i realize that i shouldn't be part of this. i shouldn't be a witness to this. i reported it to headquarters and headquarters pulled us out. >> so you have to try to provide a lens of history that doesn't exist yet. i understand people are uncomfortable with this. but the options we had were not very good. [ speaking foreign language ] to the dark side and then i can come back because i'm going to the dark side for a good purpose. and there were times when that may be appropriate, but it is dangerous. it's easier next time to