its president, wayne pacelle joins me now.of us have been to the circus and we don't see what the problem is. what's the problem? >> well, there's what happens in the three rings but really the big story and the backstory is what happens to animals that are in training, where they're coercively trained. they're dominated, sometimes hit with bull hooks which is a broom handle with a sharp metal object at the end of it. they're often on chains for 20 or 22 hours a day. and they're really sent on box cars, on railroads to 100, 115 cities a year. so they're going from detroit to milwaukee, to minneapolis. that's no life for an elephant. these are highly intelligent sociable animals. in the wild they migrate 40 miles a day. they live with the mothers and grandmothers and babies. un, life on a chain to do a silly stunt, i think a lot of people question in 2015 whether that is an appropriate activity. >> ifill: now the humane society has been part of this legal complaint over the years. there are now only 13, as i just said, of these