there was a totally different product called webnotes. it was a weekend projette. we rebranded this thing, made up a crazy name called croa-a-dock. >> most people think of it i have some friends, i work with them at hewlett-packard. you went on a dating search to find your founders. >> a three-year dating search or so. i swear we must have gone through a dozen different people before we found the three co-founders we have now. most of that -- some of that was a lack of luck. a lot of it we didn't know what we were doing. we were working with anyone who was interested. we didn't really know what to look for in a founder. >> you say we. it's -- you had a partner -- because most companies when they start out, you look at apple. it was clearly the steve and the steve. most companies, there's a core, it's not as if that's going to change. you know what, let's not have you be a founder. you can't kick out somebody with whom you've created the idea. how does that work? >> i say we because our time is so tight. everybody is about us together. >> you went and and tried to f