weisselberg.nd if you're keeping score mr. weisselberg makes it six who have been cooperating in one way or another with the feds or in michael cohen's case, who has turned against the president. rick getz, cohen, george papadopoulos, david pecker and now allen weisselberg. joining us with more now is shimon procupez. what are you learning about why investigators are speaking with allen weisselberg? >> really, the key is the money. weisselberg controlled the flow of the money. he's named as an executive in the court documents. they don't name him by name, but in the charging documents that michael cohen, that the court filed in regards to michael cohen, he's in there. he's referred to as executive one, and it essentially says he reimbursed michael cohen for some of the hush money payment. it's understandable why the government would want to seek him at the very least as a witness. what's interesting is you have between weisselberg and pecker who apparently also has been cooperating and has been gi

weisselberg immunity. and there's one other thing to keep in mind with all of this news today, that this top executive at the trump organization, essentially donald trump's right-hand officer at his business, has been given immunity by federal prosecutors. and it's this, david pecker, this guy, "the national enquirer" chief who was the keeper of donald trump's tabloid secrets, well, he's flipped and given information to prosecutors. michael cohen, the keeper of donald trump's personal secrets, he's pleaded guilty to crimes he says he committed with trump and now allen weisselberg, the keeper of donald trump's financial and business secrets, he's been given immunity. donald trump is running out of hiding places. the other two executives who run the trump organization with allen weisselberg and who run the trump trust from which weisselberg ordered the cohen reimbursements be paid, they're both named trump. where are prosecutors going to go next? joining us now is david fahrenthold, "washington post" reporte

allen weisselberg. >> immunity for allen weisselberg, the man trump put in charge of his business along with his son. >> they're >> i've spoken to allen weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with -- >> what are we going to pay? >> funding. >> my chief financial officer allen weisselberg. >> tonight, why this immunity deal could be the biggest catch yet. >> mr. president, what does weisselberg know? >> then, just how many different investigations are looking at the president? plus, everything else that's been happening while the presidency is in crisis. >> we're canceling obama's illegal anti-coal destroying regulations. >> when "all in" starts right now. >> allen. >>> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. the president of the united states began this week with a two-day tweetstorm attacking robert mueller and anyone even seemingly tangentially connected with the russia investigation. but as the weekends it is trump and seemingly anyone tangentially connected to him who find themselves in deep trouble. and the thing of it is mueller may be the least of their worries. tru

weisselberg and mr.ohen as being the closest confidants to businessman donald trump and now president trump could have had, they are all cooperating. and it makes one wonder if one of the trump children will become a cooperator soon. it is almost hard to believe that these three are helping prosecutors in various injuries dick s -- jurisdictions, but they are. this has to be the worst week the president has faced since taking office. >> what do you think is going on behind the scenes with the trump children with this family, how might they all be reacting to it? >> i think that they are probably all trying to figure out what may be in mr. weisselberg's records to reveal and what michael cohen may have to tell as well. you have to keep in mind that there are 500 trump organization companies. there were all sorts of applications for loans made for different entities, there were claims to reduce taxes in one case to reduce your taxes you might say a property is worth a billion dollars and then the next day

and when we talk about federal immunity for allen weisselberg, the fact that weisselberg has his fingers in a lot of trump p pies, is he protected from the state of new york? >> i would have to look and since we don't know, it is difficult because the u.s. attorney's office for the seventh district of new york is not commenting and they can't guidance into this. so difficult to know -- >> huow encompassing the deal i. >> right, because it may extend to other investigations, it may only extend to federal investigations. so right now that is just something that we need to get more information about. i would caution a little bit -- >> there is a legal answer. >> go ahead, harry. >> i just think of the castegard case. he will have immunity for the very things he testifies to, not less, not more. so the states can't come in -- >> so the immunity is around the tch testimony. so you can't take the same testimony and charge him with state crimes based on that testimony. >> correct. >> so would he be considering making a separate deal with the state of new york? because the state of new york is v

weisselberg is looking beyond michael cohen. they would need potentially his testimony and cooperation to look at someone else higher up the food chain if you will. there's only one person that that is likely to be and that is donald trump. >> do you think you're a -- >> reporter: cohen can be heard on a radio tape obtained by cnn talking to mr. trump about weisselberg, the apparent subject, making payments to cover up the past behavior. >> i've spoken to allen weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with -- >> what are we going to do? >> with funding. yes. and it's all the stuff. >> reporter: a big question is how the president decides to respond. he once told "the new york times" an investigation in the family's finances would cross a red line. >> mueller's looking at your finances and family's finances unrelated to russia, is that a red line? >> that would be a breach of the actual -- i would say yes. >> i would say yes. >> the president sources say has fumed for months to fire attorney general jeff sessions. one day

we're told that weisselberg has not been called back. at this point, it appears their interest in weisselberg and his participation with the u.s. attorney's office was very specific to michael cohen. we're still reporting this story, but it appears that weisselberg was in a few weeks ago. he did answer questions about michael cohen and payments made to him in connection with these campaign finance violations. >> thanks for that, kara. cnn legal analyst paul callan joins me now. how potentially damaging is weisselberg's cooperation for the president? >> it could be very damaging for the president because weisselberg is someone who has been involved in the trump organization really throughout its history. as a matter of fact, he even worked for the president's father, fred trump, back in the early years of the trump organization. so he's obviously someone who is intimately familiar with how finances were handled. and if the focus initially was on the hush money payments to stormy daniels and karen mcdougal, prosecutors would want to know w

but is allen weisselberg, is he a made man? maybe that's the question. >> we're going to talk a little bit. we are definitely going to talk about that kind of culture that exists in the trump world later on in the show. seth, really quickly, would state charges take away a michael cohen pardon as a potential tool for trump? we know he's trying to kind of perhaps signal that to paul manafort with some of the comments and language and the tweets, saying he's a brave man and all that, if there are state charges, would that neutralize a presidential pardon? >> yeah, it sure would. mr. trump, the president, has the power to pardon in the federal system, but not in the state system. the governor of new york could pardon someone, there's no indication that could happen. the da bringing charges against michael cohen or anybody else, the president will not be able to pardon those. >> what do you think right now, seth, in terms of the investigators, what is the big picture here they're trying to put together when it comes to president tr

allen weisselberg. >> immunity for allen weisselberg, the man trump put in charge of his business along with his son. >> they're >> i've spoken to allen weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with -- >> what are we going to pay? >> funding. >> my chief financial officer allen weisselberg. >> tonight, why this immunity deal could be the biggest catch yet. >> mr. president, what does weisselberg know? >> then, just how many different investigations are looking at the president? plus, everything else that's been happening while the presidency is in crisis. >> we're canceling obama's illegal anti-coal destroying regulations. >> when "all in" starts right now. >> allen.

attorney's office has given weisselberg immunity.discussed with him these payments to michael cohen. >> all right, kara. thank you for that. joining me now, defense attorney and former federal prosecutor shan wu. just quickly, it seems from what kara is reporting that this seems to be a pretty narrow scope that allen weisselberg is involved in. >> there is. there's a question as to when he was granted the immunity. we can safely assume there's been a lot of interviewing that's already gone on. so we don't know the full scope of what he may have given already to the prosecutors. i think importantly, too, we hear so much talk about trump's strategy being all political, geared towards public opinion and impeachment. he's got to remember the legal strategy matters. if he ends up on trial in the senate, it's not going to be like a campaign rally in pennsylvania. the legal strategy, his credibility, all that is going to matter. right now his team is in disarray in terms of the strategy. >> and does it mean that if allen weisselberg has alr

goes to his sons don and erik and allen weisselberg. >> reporter: weisselberg oversees the family's trump. he's prepared his tax returns and was the treasurer for trump's charity. and weisselberg is privy to donald trump's interactions here and overseas including where all the funding was coming from. there's no doubt about how fast weisselberg's knowledge is. he has a long history with the trumps back to the 1970s. he was an accountant for president trump's father, fed trump, and then moved over to the donald trump organization. weisselberg overasaw many of donald trump's transactions as well as the purchase of planes and boats. the former assistant attorney general who helped lead the prosecution of trump university says weisselberg is the single most indispensable person in the trump organization. in that case, weisselberg knew where every dollar came from in the trump organization and controlled where every dollar went. over the years weisselberg has kept a low profile. one former colleague says that, quote, wei sselberg fits in wit the wallpaper but seems to be a household name

officer, allen weisselberg. and you think george is tough? wait till you see allen. >> well, i think they had a very good plan. they were diversified. not just the location but also in services. and because of diversification and net profit of $307.41. >> 307 bucks. for more on this perilous new phase in the legal jeopardy faced by the president i'm joined by former acting solicitor general neil catial author of a new op-ed in the "new york times," "this conspiracy theory should worry trump." let's start with that op-ed. you outline why you think the legal developments this week in the case before the southern district are so perilous for the president. why are they? >> yeah, this is really, really serious. if this were against any other individual in this country who wasn't the president of the united states, they would be indicted at this point. so you know, trump claims to have a get out of skral free card because he claims he's the sitting president. and you know, we can talk about that later. but these are

the issue regarding allen weisselberg. he is the money man in the same way that michael cohen was the fixer and the lawyer, a guy who sort of saw and knew of everything that happened. no money came and went without weisselberg knowing about it? >> that's correct. and we only have to look at the criminal information that michael cohen pled guilty to to know that. because right in there there are statements that are made and that are quoted that specifically state exactly what was to be done with the repayment to michael cohen for that stormy daniels' payment back in 2016. so it's very clear from the court documents, from what we're able to get following proceedings on tuesday exactly what it was that executive one, who we now have learned and confirmed issalen weisselberg, exactly what he was aware of in early 2017 as it related to these payments. now, there's going to be all sorts of questions that come up as far as did he actually know that this was a payment for stormy daniels or not? what was his particular knowledge? w

his name is allen weisselberg, the cfo of the trump organization. little side note, giving immunity to these two but not cohen shows how intent prosecutors are. if they're willing to jam him up for things that he did only for trump, remember none of it -- you know, a lot of -- you've got to look at the plea agreement, but a lot of it is what he did for trump. what does that say how interested they are in what trump knows. even if you don't believe anything from anybody else, there's the tape of trump and cohen proving that he knew during the process, not only after. remember. >> i need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend david, you know, so that i'm going to do that right away. i've actually come up -- i've spoken to allen weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with funding. >> he only knew about it after he says this, obviously before, at best during. he lied. does it yes. why? here. 18-usc-2001. what is that? that's lying to the government, false statements to the government. what does that mean?

but weisselberg is in a whole different category. for 40 years he's been a key player in that trump organization and knows a lot of what's going on. so this is a real significant development. prosecutors, as you know, they've been pointing out that this immunity deal is part of the hush money that michael cohen helped arrange for those women who alleged affairs with donald trump. but does this open the door for him to testify about other financial issues involving the president or the trump organization? >> well, the immunity deal was in connection with michael cohen and michael cohen's testimony. it's not clear yet this will apply going forward. but we do know weisselberg was involved in every financial transaction involving this organization. he would present checks to donald trump to sign. trump would make decisions whether to sign them or not, whether payment was too high or not. so he was really part of the president's support structure. if the prosecutors have homed in on him, this is deeply problematic for the president given

let's start with allen weisselberger. tom, you confirmed that weisselberger has been granted immunity. what would he need to to do to that immunity? >> what he would need to say, they would approach and say, hey, we'd like to talk with you. we need you to walk through some certain things. whether that be for a grand jury or just a sit down and have a discussion with fbi agents and federal prosecutors. he might say i could talk to you but i might be going into an area where i'm incriminating myself. they would say we are going to imunize your testimony or anything that you tell us. the kpkt mechanics of this, because the press office for the southern district of new york is not commenting on this, we don't know the exact mechanics. did it happen in front of a grand jury, in a discussion with prosecutors? basically, what they would want is to walk us through this payment. this stormy daniels payment. that's where his information would be helpful, too. they have statements in here that detail him accepting michael cohen's re

weisselberg was likely granted. assume it's something that's limited but when we hear that he was cooperating on the michael cohen aspect of things what does that mean beyond michael cohen's investigation. >> you can see the southern district is circling now. you just ran through the things we have seen this week. michael cohen pleading guilty to the campaign finance violation. now seeking immunity granted to these two new witnesses. immunity is never lightly handed out. what it means sufficient a witness you're interested enough to talk to that has invoked the fifth amendment, meaning they have some exposure and the prosecutors make the determination, "a," this person has information and b, we are willing to give them a break to get it. it's a lengthy difficult process. prosecutors don't like to do it. you have to go to main in d.c. you have to go to a judge for approval. it's thoroughly vetted. >> is there any way weisselberg could have done this with the president's permission or even acknowledgement meaning, hey

or should he be concerned weisselberg could say more?t be surprised if weisselberg's attorney spoke to trump's attorneys and told him what he was asked about and what he answered. one of the great unanswered questions, i don't know the answer to it, is, is the southern district which obtained the guilty plea for michael cohen, where michael cohen said i did these illegal acts at the direction of president trump, then candidate trump, are they following up on that? are they doing more investigation? i don't know the answer to that yet. it may be that weisselberg's testimony was directed to getting the guilty plea, which was successfully completed, but will they go back to him and say, what more can you tell us? i don't know. maggie, do you know? >> i don't know. i'd like to know. >> we will talk more about alan weisselberg. while i still have you on, the subject of alan, you said you thought the this is a bigger threat in your mind than the russia investigation. weisselberg is the guy that knows where all the financial bodies are buried.

the key here is weisselberg. he is so close to the, to president trump, as you just heard from all of those employees that used to work there, and when trump was -- when he assume the presidency, he put his sons in charge of the company and also weisselberg. showing how trusted he is, erica. he is going to know a lot of information, and the really going to turn on just exactly what those terms of that immunity deal are. >> fascinating to see the exact terms. wouldn't it? thank you. >>> "outfront" senior analyst mark pressman and jennifer rogers and "new york times" columnist frank bruni. as we look at this, during this conversation that michael cohen secretly recorded with donald trump, he talks about one of those payments. allen weisselberg's name is mentioned. listen to this. >> i need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend david. you know, so that i'm -- need do to that right away. >> give to me. >> i've spoken to allen weisselberg about ho w to set te whole thing up wit

there are three obvious bigger fish than weisselberg here. that would appear to be where this investigation is headed. >> kristen, there at the white house, probably they read very closely, the president's lawyers read closely these documents coming out of the michael cohen guilty plea. when they see "executive 1," they've probably figured out there are some issues here and they have some vulnerabilities. what must the president be thinking today, to look at these headlines, that allen weisselberg, his father's accountant, his accountant, the cfo of the trump organization, is talking to the feds? >> i think you're right, andrea, that his lawyers knew this was coming and likely discussed it with him and prepped him for this. but there is no doubt that the headlines this week are getting to the president. look, he hasn't lost it yet. those close to him say that. but they are bracing for a potential eruption here. we're seeing that start to play out in the president's tweets recall you c. you can see him grow increasingly frustrated, tweeting ab

weisselberg is the latest trump associate to get immunity.esterday we learned david pecker, publisher of "the national enquirer" and a long-time trump ally, obtained that privilege for getting prosecutors information about mr. cohen. it was only this tuesday when cohen pleaded guilty, remember, to campaign finance violations related to those payments, which he told the court were at trump's direction. weisselberg goes back to when trump's father ran the company. he is the long-time keeper of the books, who even appeared with trump on season two of "the apprentice." >> replacing george this week is my chief financial officer, allen weisselberg. you think george is tough. wait until you see allen. >> weisselberg was also part of the team put in charge of trump's finances after he won the 2016 election. >> he's relinquished leadership and management of the trump organization to his sons, don and eric, and a long-time trump executive, allen weisselberg. don, eric and allen are committed to ensuring that the activities of the trump organization ar

weisselberg. he's the longtime chief financial officer of the trump organization, the president's private companies whose finances are cloaked in secrecy. prosecutors unravel the plot held by michael cohen to funnel hush money to women alleging affairs with the president. the attorney for one of those women, michael avenatti, believes more could be at stake. >> the only reason for give immunity is they were looking beyond michael cohen. there's only one person that is likely to be, and that is donald trump. >> are you a hero? do you think you're a hero now? >> reporter: cohen can be heard on an audiotape tiking about weisselberg, the apparent subject, making payments to cover up the president's past behavior. >> i have spoken about how to set the whole thing up with funding --. >> reporter: the big question is how does the president decide to respond in he once tolls "new york times" that an investigation creeping into his family finances would cross a line. >> reporter: looking into your family's

there's no doubt about how vast weisselberg's knowledge is. he has a long history with the trump family going back decades. in the 1970s, he was an accountant for president trump's father. he then moved over to the trump organization. "the wall street journal" reported weisselberg oversaw many of trump's personal transactions, including household expenses and purchases of planes and boats. tristan snell, former assistant attorney general who helped lead the prosecution of trump university says weisselberg is the single most indispensable person in the trump organization. in that case he says weisselberg knew where every dollar in the trump organization came from and controlled where every dollar went. over the years, weisselberg has kept a pretty low profile, one former colleague telling "the wall street journal" that weisselberg, quote, fits in with the wallpaper. suddenly though he seems to be a household name. randi kaye, cnn, new york. >>> there's a lot on the plate. bring in cnn contributor, former counsel for federal election commission,

weisselberg declined request for comment.have known, he was the money man. if you are donald trump in the white house right now, what is going through your mind? >> weisselberg is a much bigger fish than michael cohen. weisselberg is more integral to the trump organize, to trump's life, than michael cohen was. so this is -- if president trump is watching the banners on tv right now, he will wonder what the me heck is going on with the people who work for him. >> and we talked about somebody else granted immunity, david pecker of course, the publisher of the "national enquirer," the tabloid that was very pro trump during the election, long time friend of donald trump. and allie said prosecutors dontsd gi don't give immunity like it is candy. which signifies that when they granted immunity, it is because they are getting good stuff. >> that's right. i'm no lawyer, but that is the process that we've seen. if you are granted immunity, it means that you had a fear that you would be charged for your role in in scheme. and i suppose

and in exchange for his help in the cohen case, weisselberg was granted immunity. prosecutors say when the president's personal attorney michael cohen paid off daniels just days before the election, weisselberg arranged for him to be reimbursed the following year. according to court documents, "the company accounted for these payments as legal expenses. in truth and in fact, the monthly invoices cohen submitted were not in connection to any legal service he had provided in 2017." they were for that hush payment before the election. today's news about weisselberg, yet another blow in a brutal week for president trump. >> michael, what is your message to the president? >> reporter: tuesday, cohen pleading guilty, admitting he broke campaign finance laws with a scheme to buy the silence of the two women "in coordination with and at the direction of" donald trump. then, we learned the president's close friend, "national enquirer" publisher david pecker, had cut his own immunity deal with prosecutors, telling them he was in cahoots with cohen and that the president was

as i tweeted as soon as the weisselberg news hit, i don't buy giving weisselberg and pecker immunity to only go after conor to only lay a foundation for a conspiracy to commit an election fraud case against the president. it's got to be something bigger. what they know and are willing to say beyond the concase has not yet begun to leak the associated press says pecker had secrets about trump locked in a face which has been removed and or destroyed and weisselberg has knowledge of all of trump's finances. the only thing i know for sure is there is more here than meets the eye. you don't need to immunize weisselberg, pecker and howard j you to prosecutor michael cohen. cohen is not a mob boss. cohen cooperated without pre conditions. as far as we know michael cohen was not offered an immunity deal. it becks the question whether the three are cooperating against michael cohen or michael cohen and/or donald trump. and if it's the latter, it has to be for non-russia activities given that is mueller's turf, not the southern district itself. even so, this level of immunity seems excessive i

allen weisselberg.ng time cfo of trump organization was granted immunity for cooperation in the cohn case. could be one of many sgrant threats facing not just trump's presidency, but his business. trump once said would be a red line that mueller shouldn't cross. joining me now is senior vice president for social justice at the news school. paul butler. editor of above the law and dean series xm host of the

weisselberg himself had criminal liability. you don't need an immunity deal if you weren't involvedin potentiallommitting a crime. that's the first thing. second of all, it indicates that prosecutors believe that there is sething valuable that they were getting in exchange for his testimony. prosecutors don't just gie away immunity like candy. they have a specific reason for doing so. so, here, it appears mr. weisselberg's coopthation was, avery least, helpful to prosecutors in securing the conviction of michael cohen, who pled guilty earlier this week. i think the question is is there other potential lue in that testimony beyond that and i think that's an important question going fward. >> woodruff: that's what i wanted to ask you, staying with o you, renariotti, in the "wall street journal," reports of him testifying to the grand jury last month. the question is, is it just around the michael cohen paymts to these two women, or is it something broader? how do we read tht? >> well, it's interesting, judy, because, even if you

and one more thing about weisselberg. our source said he is not called back for additional questioning of weeks ago and unclear if he'll be questioned again. >> athee thna jones, thank you. >>> first of all, put it in perspective. we're joined by bill kristol, scott bolden and kevin maddon. put it in perspective for me. he's the man who knows where all the financial bodies are buried. how big is this? >> oh, actually, i think this is legitimately huge. i know a lot of times we say that things ra really big deal. i think this is -- this is really a big deal precisely because this is somebody in the trump organization who as you said knows where all the bodies are buried and knows much more than just about this issue. right? so this is just -- you know, i'm operating under the assumption this isn't the only deal that donald trump was involved in that was probably illegal. and then in this case, you know, this definitely was illegal. i think you are honing in on the core of where donald trump was operating with michael cohen

david, let's talk more about allen weisselberg.his is the man who knows where every dollar goes within mr. trump's business world. how significant is it now that he has been granted immunitimmu? >> in week of shocking developments, this is yet another stunner because here is someone who knows where all the bodies are buried financially speaking and has worked for the trump organization for i think at least two decades. so it is a very signature development. and the fact that he was given immunity meant that he had to talk. and he probably gif a lave a lo information and also a lot of documents and the testimony to make it clear how you that all fits together regarding trump and the organization. >> we don't know the extent of how far this goes beyond the cohen investigation, but the bigger question, how might this fit within the broader investigation? >> well, right, once he has immunity, he has to talk. his only peril at that point is to lie, so it makes no sense and i'm sure he has very good counsel which has told him that you ca

i'd like to know. >> we will talk more about alan weisselberg. still have you on, the subject of alan, you said you thought the this is a bigger threat in your mind than the russia investigation. weisselberg is the guy that knows where all the financial bodies are buried. should the president be more concerned about him? >> he should be and especially enough if he thinks weisselberg said anything incriminating. that's not the issue. did he say anything that builds gaps in the prosecution's case. if you say, i said nothing, that will hurt the president. you don't know what gaps there are. weisselberg may have told about a meeting or encounter, something they didn't know could lead to other issues. the president should be concerned about weisselberg and cohen. i would expect his legal team is concerned he may be putting forth a positive face on this but he should be deeply concerned. i've always said he should be more concerned about the southern district where he doesn't have constitutional defenses than the mueller probe, which is about his presi

that's why they gave pecker and weisselberg immunity. they're not going with weisselberg with everything that trump ever did. and even if they did, it doesn't matter, he's a sitting president, you can't indict him. there will be no legal ramifications from any of us this. it's all drama. nontroversy. >> the argument for that is that this particular angle fell out of the special scope of what the special counsel was instructed to do. because of the mandate of the russia investigation, because they came upon information that looked like it was a crime, they referred it to the southern district of new york, and that then the argument would be the southern district of new york pursued the discreet crimes that they had discovered evidence in, when they conducted the searches of michael cohen's office. and that perhaps this is all there is. i mean, one could argue, if the scope of the weisselberg immunity agreement is narrow, that perhaps the whole point was to get michael cohen to plead to the other financial crimes with which he was charged.

weisselberg's the guy that can say, yeah. $130,000 to stormy daniels that was supposed to be a retainer to michael cohen. but it wasn't really. there's a lot of diceyness in there. that's why the trump organization faces some ability, not just michael cohen. so, i shg, weisselberg is a guyn shed some light. >> not just anybody gets immunity. even if it's not about trump. we have hyper focus on that. what about other members of the organization? what about other family members that are members of the organization? could there be exposure? >> correct. that's point one. so that is cohen and in that campaign. so that is there. the question is, is there a broader immunity here for weisselberg? what we know about the reporting, is he going to be called back? i start going to the broadcast news flop sweat. alan weisselberg is the guy that is the books guy. the money guy. >> his father -- >> for decades. >> fair point. we have to wait on that fact. >> we don't know. >> i am short on the clock. duncan hunter, the california representa

so why move on to weisselberg?n only mean to give that grant of immunity that the information he has is so valuable it logically extends beyond payments that cohen has already testified to. now of course the government needs corroboration, they do need someone if addition to cohen saying these payments were made. they have a tape, maybe that helps them but it doesn't make sense that they would give weisselberg immunity for just securing more of a conviction against michael cohen who's already been convicted. the implication is that this immunity grant is for a large body of information and all you need to do is look at allen weisselberg's title over the last several decades to get an inference about where that's leading. >> so michael cohen takes the plea deal admitting guilt on eight counts. you've got paul manafort convicted on eight counts but i want to play for you what one of the jurors said yesterday about plea deals. listen to this. >> the prosecution's star witness, rick gates, you're saying that he didn't

cohen comes to trump and he says, i'm going to set this up through allen weisselberg. so we know he's there at the inception as david points out. that's the potential for conspiracy liability. yeah, and again, like many of trump's associates who have been with him forever, he's a man in his 70s. a criminal conviction on taxes might be equivalent to a life sentence. the pressure is enormous on both the federal and state side. he really -- in order to talk, he needed immunity, and they gave it to him. >> david and harry, thank you both very much for joining us tonight. really appreciate it. >> thanks. >>> and coming up, during donald trump's worst week, he continued to attack his own attorney general, who happens to be the only attorney general of the united states who has voted to impeach a president of the united states. we will hear jeff sessions' standard for impeaching a president in his own words. >>> and later, what's in the pecker safe? two people who worked for david pecker at "the national enquirer" will join us to discuss the kinds of things david pecker was h

weisselberg and cohen. this is a huge play up and towards the president. >> jon meacham, it is quite a week and hard to fathom that cohen was indicted earlier this week. you got cohen and pecker and weisselberg. what, jon meacham, do you make of all the president's closest advisers. >> for more than two years and almost three years now, we have talked about the political sign post that we are all accustom to that donald trump blew passed or ran over or ignored. he got away with it and saying things tho mainstream politicians can get away with. he got away with defining political gravity again and again. what we are seeing now is no one can define legal gravity. politics is more fluid and it is about the disposition of heart and mind and temperament of a given number of people at a given moment. the law is the law. i think that as frustrating as it is for those of us who are engaged in the arena to think that all this moves so slowly, the legal wheels have always moved more slowly than the political ones. i

how to set the whole thing up with funding. >> reporter: he appears to reference pecker, weisselberg an with trump. the conversation, the president insisting he didn't know about the payments at the time. >> did you know about the payments? >> later on i knew. later on. >> reporter: so nothing today from the president on michael cohen but that's not the case for jeff sessions as that feud escalates after the attorney general's declaration of justice department independence, the president today seemed to sarcastically encourage him saying he should investigate corruption on the other side. >> how about the news to north korea, the president pushing pause on further talks. >> reporter: he is. for the first time the president is acknowledging the high-stakes negotiations hit a major hurdle, a lack of progress on denuclearization. the president's now asking secretary of state mike pompeo not to travel to pyongyang and he partly blamed china for not turning up the heat enough on kim jong-un. >> hallie jackson, thank you. >>> let's turn to the flood disaster in hawaii. a state of emergency

now weisselberg and mr. pecker being granted immunity. and the sociuthern district smes blood and they go to get it. immuneity means that the southern district has looked at these two individuals and they both invoked the fifth amendment. and the southern district made the judgment that they have something valuable that we want, and we're willing to give them a pass via immunity to get it. >> so immunity is big. do you think this could signal this goes beyond cohen? >> not really because the type of immunity he was given, and granted related to cohen, it doesn't sound like it was carte blanche i believe community for anything he may have done ever, but it sounds like that it receded the plea that ultimately came forward with cohen. in other words, he spoke about cohen, maybe cohen and his attorney knowing this was out there it is part of what prompted them to enter the plea that they did. >> i'll respectfully disagree. it is not just limited to cohen. anyone who is involved in these payments, the information lists individual one, individu

why weisselberg? >> weisselberg makes a lot of sense. he's the accountant.ka poen and the book keeper. he could narrate a very broad story if investigators were looking at the far flung trump empire. we don't know just yet what his cooperation consists of. we don't know if he's been compelled to cooperate after asserting his fifth amendment right or engaged in voluntary cooperation in exchange for an agreement he won't be prosecuted. that will stay opaque for a while before they become clear. prosecutors believe his cooperation was essential to moving forward and that likely means moving up the ladder for prosecutions. >> let's listen to the recording on michael cohen's secret tape with him and the president talking about al weisselberg's role. >> i spoke with allen about how to set the whole thing up. >> what are we going to do? >> it's all the stuff because you never know where the company -- >> maybe he gets hit by a truck. >> correct. i spoke to allen about it. when it comes time for the financing -- >> what financing? >> we'll have to pay. >> not cash.

he mentioned in that exchange allen weisselberg. very interesting, we'll keep waiting to see if the white house has anything to say about it. for now, back to you. >> harris: kevin, thank you very much. bring nothing my first guest steven mulroy, university of memphis law professor. great to you, steven. >> thank you. >> harris: i want to ask you how immunity works and what you expect in exchange, that is important to know. >> yes, harris, this is not simply the prosecutors saying they will tell the judge at sentencing the defendant cooperated and big promise of reduced sentence. immunity is essentially get out of jail free card, prosecution says they will not use anything the person provides to prosecute them and essentially they won't be seeing jail time at all because of the extent of the cooperation. >> harris: with regard to this case against michael cohen, we're learning more and more about what any sort of deal would have looked like with regard to him. more importantly, the people who were in the documents regarding michael

now you know that, as we just talked about, pecker and weisselberg have talked to prosecutors. this is closing in on the president in a sense. on the other hand, politically, we know the president is still above 40% in polling and that's where he was the day he took office. he has not lost a ton of his support among his base, among republican voters, and republican members of congress can see this. they can read polls. and they know this. so that's why i think you haven't seen that many republicans come out this week and speak in more strong language about what's going on around the president because they rely on those same voters to get elected and they know that president trump is the sort of centering force in the republican party right now for better or worse. >> but the flip side to that is how potentially damaging is it for many of those elected officials who are, you know, leery of saying anything negative about the president or, you know, scorning what is being publicized, especially if we learn more that could be potentially incriminating for the president. what does t

then allen weisselberg had immunity.moment -- he was on the line right there. michael cohen is admitting his guilt and anything he says is under oath. that's a pretty strong moment. >> regardless of where the russia investigation ends up, the campaign was illegally influenced by donald trump who gave contributions to woman. that's why pecker sought immunity. would it be more than campaign finance issues? would it be a conspiracy to influence an election? >> i've been told clearly that as far as michael cohen in the southern district of the new york, it's over. i don't think we are going see any other charges. i don't think we'll see anything else tied to these two payments. if it was anything else other than the president -- it has nothing to do with donald trump. if this was a mayor, a congressman, a governor, you would be inviting me on to say, when is the mayor getting indicted? when is the govesenator getting indicted? but you can't indict a sit president. that's the only reason we are not wondering what michael cohe

other people have exposure and they were given immunity including weisselberg and pecker. who else would know about it? could only president trump have known? probably not. so i think the target now, other people who were high level officials in the campaign including don jr., ivanka, and jared kushner. >> if it was more than individual payments, a dine of transfer everything you have, that might have been a bigger deal involving more people, a larger undertaking than the one-offs than we had understood them to be. there's another story i want to get your reaction to. that's how this white house is preparing for the oncoming legal onslaught. they are saying that the president isn't prepared for the gathering legal storm. he tweeted yesterday, four of the five deputies are out of. there you have rudolph giuliani running things, who is not, whatever you think of him, a top flight practiced like white collar defense attorney. do you think they are underprepared based on what you can tell for what is coming? >> hugely. this isn't speculation. a, they don't have the horses but

weisselberg, they both have now immunity in this investigation into cohen. these are very close confidantes of the president's for a long time. the president, does he see this as a betrayal? how is the white house responding? >> reporter: well, the white house really isn't talking at all about these specific deals that have been struck by these people that were very close associates with president trump, but it's hard to ignore the significance of it. you're talking about three men, michael cohen, david pecker, and allen weisselberg, who all understand the inner workings of the trump organization and could potentially have a lot of information that could be of need to robert mueller and the special counsel investigation. but it's important to point out, victor and christi, we do not know the scope of these immunity agreements. they could have just been to be a part of this investigation into michael cohen and they're now complete, and it could mean that it's not going to mean anything more for president trump. so at this point, the president and his legal te