wendy rosen is the head of the rosen group, a company that focuses on microenterprised development. he's also a democratic candidate for congress. and leonard cooperman runs cnh business enterprises based in treasure island, florida. he owns coin-operated laundry mats. great to see both of you. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> leonard, i want to start with you because you have such an interesting story. we hear a lot from candidates from the obama administration that small business is going to help us out in this job crisis. you are someone who had employees, and you actually got rid of them. why? >> the cost. there is always the issues you deal with. there's scheduling issues. there are payroll issues. if somebody gets sick as a small business owner, tag, you're it. you have to fill in. we're not prepared to deal with all the tax issues, so i have to outsource payroll. it's constant babysitting and constant care. that's something -- or time that i don't have to spend. >> just to make it clear, you had a dry cleaner. now you have coin operated laundry mat, which is why you can have no