risks of terrorism from the west bank. but foreign policy is always about the balance of risk. >> rose: we conclude this evening with tim weiner, his new book about the history of the fbi. >> what i really learned about hoover is that he was not a monster. he was an american machiavelli. and he is the man who created the national security system we have today, really. and the surveillance state we have today. every camera on every street corner, every fingerprint, every bit of biometric data that is on file is a monument to him. >> rose: ahmed rashid, peter beinart and tim weiner when we continue. funding for charlie rose was provided by the following. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. ahmed rashid is here, a best selling author and journalist. for three decades he'ses reported on afghanistan, pakistan and the rise of the taliban, the late christopher hitchens called him pakistan's best and bravest reporter. his latest book is called pakistan on the bring,

of what was then palestine, which included both banks of the jordan river, the east bank and the west bank of the jordan river, and to divide it into two- the east bank, which will be what we now call jordan, and the west bank, which would be palestine- would be some kind of joint jewish and arab state. this provoked again another big argument within the settlement then in the land of israel among those who said, "only the entirety of the land," and those who said, "well, better some of it rather than the entire bit." and then the six day war is just another phase in this ongoing argument. the same argument went on also in 1948, and the decision to the partition the land again into two states- a jewish state and a palestinian state. and in 1967, following the six day war, when israel occupied the west bank, the issue became an issue again. do we see the west bank as part of the state of israel, or not? this is of course speaking from the israeli point of view. so this has been an ongoing debate within zionism. now its unique religious flavor is really a matter of the past 25 years, where t

they applied the same strategy in the occupied west bank and golan heights.ut victory and occupation did not bring peace. israel fought its arab neighbors again in 1973. they battled lebanese militias and the palestine liberation army, or plo, in the north. although israel returned the sinai in 1981, terror campaigns persisted through the '70s and '80s in the west bank and gaza. hoping to eventually trade land for peace, israel gambled on a 1993 plan negotiated in oslo. the main thing that oslo produced was mutual recognition between israel and the plo. for the plo, recognition of israel meant, all right, we are now accepting a two-state solution. for the israelis to accept the plo meant that they were accepting, in effect, the plo agenda. and they knew the plo agenda was statehood. if you accept the idea of having a palestinian state, and we insist on having a palestinian state-- you know, we need a capital-- and the only capital that could be, from a geographical point of view, for what would be a palestinian state in the west bank, would be jerusalem. man:

israel has occupied the west bank for 45 years. >> raheb: if you see what's happening in the west bank find that the west bank is becoming more and more like a piece of swiss cheese, where israel gets the cheese-- that is the land, the water resources, the archaeological sites-- and the palestinians are pushed in the holes behind the walls. >> simon: israel built the wall over the last ten years, which completely separates israel from the occupied west bank. the wall was built to stop palestinian terrorists from getting into israel. and it's worked-- terrorism has gone down 90%. at the same time, the wall completely surrounds bethlehem, turning the little town where christ was born into what its residents call an "open-air prison." do you remember the day they put up the wall? >> christie anastas: yeah. actually, it was in 2003 and i was about 14 years old. i went to school one day, and came back and found the wall surrounding the house. >> simon: christie anastas lives with her mother claire, her father, brother and sister in this house which is surrounded on three sides by the wall.

in the west bank town of lebron, very important biblical patriarchs believed to be buried there. jews leaders who questioned and muslims, very important site. there are jews were shipping every day, there is a big mosque. all in the same compound that has been divided into different parts and he karate family live near the center and probably had more daily friction than any other place because you had the situation with 500 israelis living where, got a round-the-clock by the israeli military and 150,000 palestinians in the city and when the palestinian uprising began in 2000 the israeli military seeking to protect these israelis, the jewish settlers in this community imposed a curfew and wouldn't let the palestinians leave their home. i was there one day early on and the usual rock throwing rubber bullets were going on and on was with a photographer and we were trying to be careful but we found their cells in a narrow street and one end of round the corner came some palestinian kids throwing rocks and molotov cocktails and on the an end israeli soldiers firing teargas and rubber

the confederates, in their bitter defeat on the west bank of the tennessee, surrendered the chance to stop a decisive union drive and possibly undo much of what theian keys had achieved during the winter and spring campaigning. for the federal army, the path lay open to split the confederacy along the mississippi river and that, in the long run, meant that the rebels could never win the war. that of course was what the campaign was all about. controlling the great father of waters. the confederates had lost the battle. they simply had to win, wrote bruce catten, a crucial effort to save the mississippi valley. historian, rob henry, stated the meaning of shiloh. the issues were the defeat of major armies and the possession of the mississippi. the stake was immense. on june 10, 1862, william tecumsee sherman wrote his wife, i think the mississippi, the great artery of america, and whatever power holds it, hold the continent. and a little later in 1863, he would say, the valley of the mississippi is america. little wonder that sherman pronounced shiloh one of the most important victories

is that this is a peaceful right its intention is to really hold peaceful demonstrations in the west bank they were planning to meet with palestinian families to plant trees and to gather in bethlehem and they say that this flight to low which is the second such high to low in two years and they have tried to organize is also an attempt to highlight the way the israeli police and these regular coroutines deal with activists all foreigners coming to israel who hold political views not shared by the government ok. they. are the peaceful activists doing nothing while there's no violence is the will of the israelis the israeli authorities about why they appeared to exert a strong over the when. well the israeli police have been preparing for this already now for several days there were four hundred and fifty uniformed and undercover police throughout the day at ben-gurion international airport and to site they were there to control the situation israeli police accuse these activists of provoking the situation they said that they were intent on destructive and public to saw them that they real

and expansion in the west bank. this time around he got a reprieve, they only talk about iran and israeli is the underdog. the iranians at the same time -- >> that's far more questions -- >> instead of 90 barrels -- >> if we could wrap it up. we have a really long line behind you. >> iran is getting -- the price for oil san diego 90 a barrel and the world price now is $120 because of the crisis. so they are pocketing $100 million every day because of that crisis. thank you. >> thank you. >> i can try to go very quickly. i think the prospect of iran directly using a nuclear weapon or transferring it to a group like hezbollah or a palestinian militant group to use against israel is extraordinarily low. for the reasons you point out, for the religion reasons, think iranians fancy themselves as the champions of resistance and growing up millions don't advance that cause and it risks massive retaliation. it would end the islamic republic and end the revolution. it's hard to see what regime would be better for that. as it

refused entry to dozens of kids who say they plan peaceful activities are planting trees in the west bank now in his third year the organization aims to gather activists more than fifteen countries to challenge what they say is an israeli siege of the occupied territories of his posts lier. they are part of this international campaign that has been dubbed welcome to this time and the intention of this campaign is to highlight the plight of the palestinian people its intention is to really hold peaceful demonstrations in the west bank they were planning to meet with palestinian families to plant trees and to gather in bethlehem and they say that this is also an attempt to highlight the way the israeli police and israeli authorities deal with activists all foreigners coming to israel who hold political views not shared by the government there was a small counter demonstration by a group of israelis who started it in go home go to syria what are you doing here israeli police accuse these activists of provoking the situation they said they were intent on disrupting public all day and they rea

of a so-called flight hilla who said they planned peaceful activities like planting trees in the west bank now in its third year of the campaign with activists for more than fifteen countries also challenge what they call the israeli siege of occupied territories or peace paul sleeker has more. they're all part of this international campaign that has been both come to palestine and the intention of this campaign is to highlight the plight of the palestinian people its intention is to really hold peaceful demonstrations in the west bank they were planning to meet with palestinian families to climb trees and to gather in bethlehem and they say that this is also an attempt to highlight the way the israeli police in these middle thirty's deal with afterbirth all foreigners coming to me as well who hold political views not shared by the government there was a small counter demonstration by a group of israelis who shouted at him go home go to syria what are you doing here israeli police accuse these activists of provoking the situation they say that they were intent on disrupting public all then

that this is a peaceful try turn its intention is to really hold peaceful demonstrations in the west bank they were planning to meet with kind of sitting in families to plant trees and to gather in bethlehem and they say that this is also an attempt to highlight the way the israeli police and the israeli authorities deal with activists all foreigners coming to as well who hold political views not shared by the government there was a small counter demonstration by a group of israelis who shouted at him go home go to syria what are you doing here israeli police accuse these activists of provoking the situation they said that they were intent on disrupting public all day and they really were trying to be legitimatized israel this heavy handedness by israel is not something new we've witnessed it a short time ago with the way the israeli police dealt with the day commemorations that we have one person dead and several other palestinian activists injured throughout the west bank from jerusalem and then of course they've been two attempts in previous years ships to reach gaza those flotillas we

activities in the west bank is endangering the two-state solution. >> building settlements is illegal according to international laws. and expansion of israeli settlements means eroding territories slated for the future palestinian state. that would make an independent palestinian state more difficult. so abbas said israel must put an end to expanding settlements totally. >> but will the israelis ever agree to that? >> i don't think so. netanyahu's main support comes from the right wing and from the jewish settlers, themselves. the settlers would not give up their land and netanyahu has been refusing to recognize the pre-1960 civil war boundaries as a basis for the future borders. >> so then how will the palestinians respond to that? >> well, abbas has played out the scenarios. this is how he says things will unfold. >> after we exchange letters, if we get nothing, the americans will bring some options, as they told us, when we find that there's no way with the israelis to return back. maybe an option to seek for a non-member state, we'll call it a non-member state in the general asse

the confederates on the west bank of the tennessee surrendered the chance to stop a decisive union drive and possibly undo much of what the yankees had achieved during the winter and spring campaigning. for the federal army, the path lay open to split the confederacy along the mississippi river and that in the long run men the rebels could never win the war. that was what it was all about, controlling the great father of waters. the con federals hads lo the a battle they simply had to win. robert henry sus sinkly stated, the issues were the defeat of major armies. the stake was immense. on june 10, 1862, william tecumseh sherman wrote his wife, i think the mississippi, the great artery of america and whatever power holds it, holds the continent. a little later, in 1863, he would say, the valley of the mississippi is america. a little wonder that sherman pronounced shiloh one of the most important victories that has ever occurred on this continent. he also considered it the turning point that made possible all our western campaigns. new orleans author, george washington kabld dramatically

the only thing we ask you as a government to withdraw from the west bank and give the palestinian the they mentioned that. >> again they repeated that in 2007, twice. the whole arab countries, the arab league. you know, asked israel twice, saying we are willing to recognize you. as governments, recognize the government and the only thing we ask you again to give the palestinians a little bit of land and -- >> that would mean -- never accepted. >> jerusalem, a red line. >> not ehud barak. >> you brought up how there's this lobby that affects congress, but not so much the executive branch and if zionism is more allied with the right, where does the president of united states stand, where does barack obama stand who today does take verbally positions on settlements and is seen by some in the right as being completely anti-israel, but is still lock-step with israeli policies. >> the never forgive the arab world. i traveled last year to tunisia, qatar, they always tell me, we always had so much admiration of the president. then one day we see prime minister putting his finger in the face o

presenting the first attitude obviously what it what is he going to offer israeli settler in the west bank what kind of a state is he going to do for them this is this is what i think the crucial problem that we have to do is ok omar then essentially what we're looking at here is the end of the zionist project. essentially i just want to address his last remark quick i mean i don't want to speak on behalf of any one people here and can present their own views but i don't think anybody has suggested that one be stripped of his right to speak his mind they're just making it clear that they're not of solidarity with his views and that they don't see themselves in alliance because his views are out of what they consider to be acceptable i mean we can have that kind of disagreement nobody's talking about a totalitarian mindset you don't have to be a totalitarian person to express your disagreement with somebody else's views right now on one state and two states i think that there is a this what what is the world are raised about right now and they're outraged about the occupation about the fact

like lethal ideas but in its power they have to power to colonize continue the colonization of the west bank no it's that's true they're one state yeah find it will be a zionist by the way by the way you are absolutely you are absolutely right about it but defunct these issues are already discussed and by the way they were not discussed forty or fifty years ago thirty years ago twenty years ago started this issues are discussed is because israelis do understand many jews around the world they may not be able to maintain this power saw for now i would agree with. you i don't think that israel is going to become a one state or state of the citizens voluntarily but i think that it will be pushed into it because the israelis are now already living in ghettos and why they're living in ghettos because they feel insecure and why do they feel insecure because they brought this insecurity upon themselves and were aware of it and israel proved in the past the. it can change erupted lee and this would take more than half an hour to deal with but again if some elements within jewish improve and even new

plight of the palestinian people its intention is to really hold peaceful demonstrations in the west bankthey were planning to meet with palestinian families climb trees and together. this is also an attempt to highlight the way the israeli police in these rebel forces deal with activists all foreigners coming to israel who hold political views not shared by that was a small. ladies who shouted at them go home go to syria what are you doing here the israeli police accuse these activists of provoking the situation they say that they were intent on destruct in public all then they really were trying to be legitimized his role this heavy handedness by israel is not something new we've witnessed a bit of a short time ago with the way the israeli police dealt with the day commemorations if you have one person dead and several other palestinian activists injured throughout the west bank from jerusalem and then of course they've been to attend sim previous years for ships to reach gaza those photos were unsuccessful with the first one resulting in nine activists killed. with the french only a we

is that a fair characterization of the west bank as undemocratic israel? >> i didn't read the book, so i cannot make a statement about, but it's clear the deeper reason to have these -- a solution of two states for two people is in order to make sure that israel -- within which we'll have a solely jewish majority for generations to come, and beyond which we will have a viable palestinian state with a palestinian majority that will express their identity, their dreams and their aspirations. i think that it's possible. it's that simple. it's possible. it needs goodwill for both sides and readiness to take tough decisions. if israel remains, the only political entity, western of the jordan river, the fact that there are blocks of millions of palestinians and that cannot vote and it makes a problem, and if they can vote, it will make israel a state. it's clear to all of us israelis, including israelis, and that's what broke most of us, including the divide and to understand that the only solution is two stt-state solution, and that is -- the only issue we care

in at the proposes that the west bank and gaza should be described not as the west bank and gaza, not as jude day ya and soup mare ya but the undemocratics i real you have millions of palestinian there is who have no vote and no state. is that a fair characterization of the west bank, as undemocratic israel? >> i did not read the book so i cannot make kind of a statement about, but it's clear that the -- the deeper reason to have the solution of two states for two people is in order to make sure that israel, we would delineate borderline and have solely majority for generations to come and beyond which we will have a viable palestinian state with a majority, where they express their i.d., their dreams and their aspirations and i think it's possible, not simple, it's possible, it needs goodwill from both sides, readiness to take tough decision and certain waits, if israel remajor the only political entity, west of the jordan riff earthquake the fact there is are blocks of millions of palestinians, they cannot vote to the knesset makes it public. fanned they can vote to the keep necessa

million arabs living in israel plus another 2 million within 14 miles of tel aviv, for example, the west bank is 14 miles from tel aviv, the gaza strip is 40 miles from tel aviv. it's not a jewish state, really. there are millions of arabs living in the same territory, living and working, and as mentioned, jerusalem is the site of the third most sacred place for islam. so i don't see any -- barring an accident, i don't see any reason for iran to attack israel, because for israel there is no reason to attack iran, because, first of all, iran will not attack them and also the israel economy is booming, the stock market apparently is not paying attention to the crisis because it's going higher and higher. so what do you think about this? i'd also like to ask you about this crisis atmosphere which is created. so to what extent does it benefit both israel and iran in a sense that for israel diverting attention from the palestinian issue -- usually when an israeli prime minister is coming to washington he's being rebuked for bank settlements, for expansion in the west bank. this time around he got

in the west bank town of lebron, very important biblical patriarchs believed to be buried there. jews leaders who questioned and muslims, very important site. there are jews were shipping every day, there is a big mosque. all in the same compound that has been divided into different parts and he karate family live near the center and probably had more daily friction than any other place because you had the situation with 500 israelis living where, got a round-the-clock by the israeli military and 150,000 palestinians in the city and when the palestinian uprising began in 2000 the israeli military seeking to protect these israelis, the jewish settlers in this community imposed a curfew and wouldn't let the palestinians leave their home. i was there one day early on and the usual rock throwing rubber bullets were going on and on was with a photographer and we were trying to be careful but we found their cells in a narrow street and one end of round the corner came some palestinian kids throwing rocks and molotov cocktails and on the an end israeli soldiers firing teargas and rubber

israeli army closed the west bank border yesterday soldiers deployed at check points and in the west of ramallah. passover begins tonight ends saturday. >>> special airport terminal for pro athletes-only in san jose. city officials say they have 44 acres of land to build a private terminal on the we have side of the san jose international airport just for the sharks, earthquakes and 49ers. two companies will bring almost 1300 workers to san jose and occupy 336,000 square feet of commercial space. the companies are in semiconductor business. more on the heh+játj in this morning's print edition of the silicon valley business journal. >>> coffee connoisseurs can rejoice a cult favor -- cult favorite just got easier to get. thanks to an app. >> coffee is art like frank sinatra was to sing, i was born to make could have >> reporter: almost 10 years after phil founded phil's coffee the line is out the door. poured by hand, stirred by hand. one of the oldest methods of making coffee. high-tech trend setters wait apparently, five sometimes 10 minutes for that perfectly crafted cup. what if yo

it is the traditional burial site of abraham and the only place on the west bank where jews live in theeart of a west bank city. >>> it looks like san francisco's gold dust lounge is getting the boot after all. the city's historic preservation voted against giving it landmark designation. fans of the lounge were hoping it get the designation to avoid eviction. the owners want to put a clothing store in that place. >>> it may not look like the leaning tower of pisa, but it most certainly is leaning. >> working on the complete bay area forecast, the changes we're going to [ male announcer ] a car is either luxury or it isn't. if you want a luxury car with a standard power moonroof, your options are going to be limited. ♪ if you want standard leather-trimmed seats, you're going to have even fewer. ♪ and if you want standard keyless access, then your choice is obvious. the lexus es. it's complete luxury in a class full of compromises. see your lexus dealer. we stand for farmers owning the company; for them taking responsibility for the products they make; for them being in the right place a

it is the traditional burial site of abraham and the only place on the west bank where jews live in theeart of a west bank city. >>> it looks like san francisco's gold dust lounge is getting the boot after all. the city's historic preservation voted against giving it landmark designation. fans of the lounge were hoping it get the designation to avoid eviction. the owners want to put a clothing store in that place. >>> it may not look like the leaning tower of pisa, but it most certainly is leaning. >> working on the complete bay area forecast, the changes we're going to see in the coming days. >> up first, new video, the chain reaction accident that sent a car into a liquor store. [ male announcer ] a car is either luxury or it isn't. if you want a luxury car with a standard power moonroof, your options are going to be limited. ♪ if you want standard leather-trimmed seats, you're going to have even fewer. ♪ and if you want standard keyless access, then your choice is obvious. the lexus es. it's complete luxury in a class full of compromises. see your lexus dealer. >>> we have new video

risk. >> there are internal risks as well but my fear if you create one state which includes the west bankte you force israel to choose between being a democracy and being a state with a jewish majority that can protect the jewish people and it seems to me that will make the external threats worse because it will create a situation of permanent war. >> peter, so to be clear what you're saying here also is that these areas of settlement within israel, within the west bank, are essentially nondemocratic areas of israel and you have called for some kind of boycott of these areas. what does that mean? >> i've called for us to commit and invest in democratic israel. israeli's original lines where all people have the right to citizenship and makes me proud a zionist of israel that israel was founded as a democracy but not to spend our money in the west bank where only jews have citizenship and palestinians don't because that actually violates israeli's founding ideals. >> you say a risk if you don't do that? >> the risk if you don't do that you create a choice where israeli has to choose between

christian worshipers on the west bank town of bethlehem also attended mass at the site of the nativity, the site where jesus was born. >>> renting may be cheaper. >>> at 4:51, officials in london are taking steps to make sure everyone stays healthy during the summer olympic games. >> we are back in two minutes. you are watching 9news now. ♪ okay, so who ordered the cereal that can help lower cholesterol and who ordered the yummy cereal? yummy. that's yours. lower cholesterol. lower cholesterol. i'm yummy. lower cholesterol. i got that wrong didn't i? [ male announcer ] want great taste? honey nut cheerios. want whole grain oats that can help lower cholesterol? honey nut cheerios. it's a win win. good? [ crunching, sipping ] be happy. be healthy. can i try yours? >>> good morning, welcome back to 9news now. hopefully, if you are enjoying this day off you are still watching us and having a great day. if you have to go to work, howard's here to tell you how to dress for it. >> reporter: a windbreaker for sure. another windy day. been windy for days. >> and really dry. >> reporter: really

obviously big chunks of the west bank that israel has settled would be part of israel in exchange for traded parts of israel. that's always been an understanding between israelis and americans and palestinians. but we are so far, erin, from a negotiation where this could be worked out. i would have to say i don't know if dennis would agree with this, but certainly in the last decade, my observations, we -- it's very hard to envision right now a ceremony on the white house lawn with president obama, prime minister netanyahu and whoever is the palestinian leader negotiated and completing a peace agreement. those kind of ceremonies happened a lot 10, 15 years ago. but we are so far from that for a whole bunch of reasons, one of which is the debate over settlements. >> and dennis, let me ask you a question. let's just -- a fair point that it isn't going to happen. even if he's moved the goal posts closer. but let me ask you this. let's just say that there was a peace deal. what would happen, because so many people -- governments in the arab world cite this conflict over the palestinian is