i'm a real believer that west virginia needs to welcome all.y green and niche components to this admission initiative, but i want you to remember just one thing, and i know you will forevermore. our coal, oil and gas folks today are supplying to west virginia in this year or in years past, $891 million of severance income to this great state. people get up every day and get their dinner bucket and go. people are in 7,000 feet underground in 32 inches of coal and can't sit up all day long. and they do it for their families. and they do it for this nation. they do it for this great state and they do it for all of us. never, never will i, and never should you ever forget the great work that the coal miners have done, the great work the gas workers do, or the oil workers in this great state. never turn your back on the greatness of our natural resources. thank you so much. [applause] we will kind of keep moving here, okay? in regard to our budget, we again are going to have a budget presented by me that is relatively flat. you see, i don't believe

one county that doesn't end up becoming west virginia. yeah. we have somebody coming from frederick county, virginia, based from frederick county. hmm. interesting. anyone else? yes. it's kind of split in half from, like, north to south. of who attended. yeah. there you can see a natural split, maybe south, the north, maybe even also east to west to a certain extent. anyone else. you remember that vote on secession. does it kind of match up? well to what you remember from that? somewhat. a little bit. fairly close. but we can see there's a large number of counties that become west virginia that don't send anyone. so how did they end up being in this new state? well, we'll get into that. now, here's where it's going to start to get a little tricky. so feel free to ask questions at any time. something doesn't make it doesn't make sense. about a week or so before the statewide vote, delegates meet in wheeling. it's often a misconception that they meet in the what's now known as independence hall. they actually meet in this building called washingto

state college, now west virginia state university. and she left us in 1937 at the age of 18. and she has never looked back. so in 1937, when captain graduated from west virginia state university. she went into the field of teaching. she was inspired here and understood the very significance of teaching, paying it forward. and so she went into teaching for about 13 years. catherine nasa at a time, african-americans and america overall was still living dual worlds. we had a white america and an african-american america, and catherine was having to very delicately walk in both worlds, and she went to work every and gave nasa and the none of who looked like her 100%, as she said in spite of how i'm treated where i can go and eat what i can do, i'm going to come here and fight to make sure i do the best job for my country and for the space race. so while at nasa, there were three significant space ventures that katherine played, a very significant role in. one was alan shepard, who was the first individual that entered into space, while ka

good stuff in west virginia.g advantage of this? >> well, it's just in its infancy but literally thousands. and, you know, today we still have about 90% of our students that are involved in public schools but it's literally thousands and especially with the establishment of what we call our hope scholarship and it's, you know, basically an education savings account. but we are going to the maximum dollars that the public schools, you know, that we can give back to the families and everything. unlimited access and everything. absolutely just lots of good stuff. >> that he sounds fantastic. there are people in 45 other states saying wish we had something like that in our state like they have got in west virginia. unfortunately as you know school unions so powerful it's hard to get this stuff through state legislators. >> well, i totally understand, but i also understand if you are respectful and try to work together absolutely doable all across this country. i understand other states that are envious of what is goi

why did west virginia feel there was a need for this bill? >> i think west virginiaens are always looking to advance opportunities for women and there's always been a sense that women sports is so beneficial for women, not only in terms of the actual competition but after people participated in women's sports, many of them become leaders in our society and i think if you look at title 9 and what west virginia was trying to do, the district co court was cr there's no animas in this based on the record and west virginia was trying to protect the integrity of women's sports, make sure when there are athletic competitions that they're being conducted fairly and they concluded that if biological males wanted to participate in these female sports, they would be unfair. i think it was a very reasonable common sense concept. what ended up happening is there was an early injunction slapped upon this law, but then we went through the really hard work, 500 entries into the court a3000 page record showing the differences biologically between men and women

we have some folks from west virginia who joined us, if you are from west virginia, raise your hand. if you would like to be from west virginia, raise your hand. almost everybody, for the record. i work in this committee to improve water and infrastructure, my faith and family's history in west virginia, recalled the magic 25 calls on all of us to care for those in need, to give those who are thirsty something to drink. this includes ensuring americans have access to safe and reliable water services. i was born in beckley. 206 years, in my first 6 years of my life, we lived -- ranking member right outside of the creek that goes through beavercreek and my sister and i live on site at beavercreek. we would play on the banks of that creek, catch small fish and frogs, never allowed to eat any of them, nor were we allowed to drink the water from beavercreek. the septic tanks were not well maintained and as a result, raw sewage and other pollution could seep into that creek. the situation was not too different from other small communities in west virginia across the country. we responded t

if you hear from west virginia racial him. if you would like to be from west virginia raise your hand. [laughing] almost everybody, for the record. our work in this committee is to improve her water and infrastructure come as a said it's personal for me. rooted in my faith and my family's history, some of you may recall that matthew 25 calls on all of us to care for those that are in need, the least of these, to give those that are thirsty something to drink. for me this includes ensuring americans have access to clean, safe and reliable water services. some of you may recall i was born in coal mining town in southern part of the state where two of the six years that i lived in the first sections of my life we live a long side a stream. our ranking member has heard of beaver. a creek the acoustical beaver creek and my sister and i lived alongside beaver creek. we would play along the banks of the creek and tried to get small fish sometimes, frogs. we were never allowed to eat any of them, nor would be allowed to drink the wate

i have hunted, fished and camped in west virginia it is beautiful for that.is tougher especially for someone like me with the young family. >> i think look at two things here. number one, it is a solution, the pinnacle of short-term thinking. the real issue is, what do we need to fix as west virginians or west virginia to draw people in. paying people to come back is an admission of failure with a touch of bribery. if you get to the map of it. a teacher in west virginia who is making $42,000 per year, who goes to oakland is i t -- is making $68,000. are they going to go back for their salary to go down? >> is it the chicken and the egg. you first need to draw people back before you can fix all of the problems you're describing. >> i think one of those mistakes we make, we think you can do economic development and all of your problems will go away. you have to make your key problems go away before people are interested in economically developing unit that has been an urban story we have seen in l.a., new york. >> asked rhode island about pain people asking peo

my family grew up in west virginia largely in virginia.e always had a private wells and i think a lot of folks still do. we've got a million people now and there's the 173,000 residents who depend on the private wells for the drinking water. of the number is actually growing, not shrinking. the language in the drinking water and wastewater infrastructure to allowtu the ea to give the grants to the states for the underground sources of contamination impacting wells for the language except to connect the orders to the regulated water utility which as you know is not always feasible. because they are managed by the states, congress does not expect the epa under the safe drinking water act and having said that, congress did expect the epa helps the states with these contaminated drinking waters. i was going to ask if you would be committed to working with of the committee on the public works to hold address by providing resources to states. >> absolutely commit to that. i'm happy to work more closely with the committee on this moving forward.

my family grew up in west virginia and largely in virginia. we had private wells. i think a lot of folks around the country still do. a lot of folks having private wells drilled for them and their families and farms in some cases. the presence of contaminated well water is becoming a problem nationwide. in delaware we know about 173,000 residents depend on private wells. most people don't think we have that many people in delaware but we do. we have a million people now. there is about 170 3000 residents who depend on private wells for the drinking water. this number is growing and not shrinking. congress included language in the drinking and wastewater infrastructure act to allow epa to give grants to states to address underground sources of contamination in acting wells. unfortunately epa cannot implement the language except to connect homeowners to a regulated water utility which is not always feasible. because wells are managed by the states, congress does not expect epa to check on the regulation of wells under the safe drinking water act. congress did expect

we are dealing with it in west virginia. i'm pleased with the attentn the issue has received and hopefully we will -- hopefully it will continue to receive. anything else you wa to say? thank you so much. we will welcome our second panel. thank u. good mning. were delhted y are here. thank u for ur tesmony. thank you foyour svice a well. randy heyn is commissior n of the philadehia war department. a role he was appointeto in 2019 -we wil see who was calling. i hope it my wife. it is not. in any event, after receiving commissioner nco of the philadelphia water department, was it 2019? pre-19 but mayor jim kenney. we consir you a neighbor right up the road. i appreciate. gi him mbest. thank you for joining us today. go rht ahead. >> thank you. chairman carpeand miy member capito and members of the- >> i'm sorr hename is capito. i've been called things worse than carpo. >> chairman carp, ricky member capitola and thank you for the opportunity toestifyn the resoces a assistance being delivereby the infrastructure and jobs act an

will: will: a west virginia soccer player.e athletes identify as females. laney joins us along with the alliance defending freedom team counsel matt sharp. let's talk a little bit about your soccer career and why this meant so much to you as you watch this take place across the culture from state to state, boys joining girls sports without identification. this is something you feel not just passionate about, but growing up with brothers you feel you understand what is at stake. >> i definitely do. i grew up with brothers, we were soccer family. my dad comes to us but i would try to play with the boys and a lot of times i would get hurt when i try to take it easy. there are inherent biological differences. they were always fitter and stronger than me. when i heard about the west virginia law i want to step in because women's sports -- i worked my entire life for a soccer scholarship and don't want to see other women getting that taken away from them. will: i want to talk about that. it seems to be what is at stake here is nothi

we need to do it back in 2015 in west virginia we had a derailment, 27 cars, tanker cars, carrying oilwent off the tracks and derailed and, moded and caused a tremendous problem there and it was very dangerous. it could have been a lot worse had it been farther down the tracks. it could have torn up a whole wn. that wee recmending le pneumatt might prevent this. routine maintenance checks and auditings and things of this sort. i don't think any of that has been done, and it's time for us to get serious about this. we're moving many more products on the rails and roads than we ever did before, and we have a lot of people who don't want any pipelines. pipelines would help alleviate a lot of this problem with the oil we need in our country and we will be using for quite some time to do it safer, but out of sight, out of line, if you don't have a pipeline you won't be using product. that's far from the truth. this is the result of people not making good decisions and it's what's broken in west virginia and broken across the country as far as in washington, the politics. >> i want -- >> bro

. >> we'll talk with west virginia senator joe manchin. >>> then the republican race for the 2024 nomination is on and key republicans are picking sides, but the bigger question is what exactly does the party stand for? >> we had a republican party that was ruled by freaks, neocons, globalists, open border zelle losts and fools. >> as more are jumping in, one is opting out. >> it's a tough decision but i've decided i will not be a candidate for the republican nomination for. >> the former maryland governor larry hogan tells our robert costa why he made that decision and we will talk to illinois democrat governor j.b. pritzker, being recruited to help president biden's expected re-election campaign. >>> was covid-19 a result of a lab accident in wuhan, china? new intelligence reports from the department of energy and fbi conflict with other agency reviews. ohio republican brad wenstrup is heading up a new committee investigating the origins of the virus. we'll talk to him. >>> then former fda commissioner dr. scott gottlieb will help us sort through it all. it's all just ahead on "face the na

for the pbs "newshour," i am william in rural west virginia.mna: supreme court arguments often deal with weighty matters like abortion, religion and discrimination. today, as john yang reports, they focused on a chew toy for dogs in a case that raises questions about free speech and commercial trademark protections. john: the maker of jack daniels whiskey has a bone to pick with a marketer of dog chew toys. the distiller of the iconic american liquor wants to muzzle the products. america's second-largest dog toy company and part of a $100 billion a year business. for more than 120 years, jack daniels has used a distinctive square bottle adorned with old number 7 and tennessee sour mash whiskey. beginning in 2014, selling a squeaky dog toy -- a replica of a jack daniels model that proclaims the old number 2 on your tennessee carpet. >> a hilarious dog tour that will have everyone talking. john: part of their silly squeakers line. it says it is a playful parody. jack daniel sedin could confuse consumers into thinking it is their product. so now t

neil: are you running for reelection in west virginia, senator? >> neil, i'm looking for the pathway that will unite and basically going to get america stronger and keep us the country and-- >> i understand that. are you running for reelection as senator. >> i'm going to whatever i can to help my country be better than it is today. neil: are you troubled by poll that show you right now at least trailing your governor, tim justice. >> no. neil: but at least 20 points. would that affect your decision if he were the nominee to take you on. >> i've never been a decision on that. i'm going to be involved, if i decide to run whatever i am involved i intend to win, if i intend to do that, i run to win i believe that. because when you see west virginia looks at me not a democrat or republican, basically perform and delivered. i've been like that all my life upfront and transparent and i feel very good about the election, whatever decision we make here, but i'm going to make sure that my country and my state does the ability to function normally and not in

in washington. >> bill: the attorney general of west virginia says this is not a partisan issue but anago au.s. appeals court in the state of west virginia blocked a state law signed by governor jim justice back in 2021. the nine supreme court justices may find themselves in the middle of a political firestorm. 19 states including west virginia have transgender athlete bans in public schools. justice signed the law in 2021 banning transgender students from participating in female school sports claiming they have an unfair competitive advantage. aclu sued on behalf of an 11-year-old girl who wanted to compete on a cross-country team. appeals court has put the ruling on hold. trans athletes in west virginia can currently compete in female sports. >> across the country women and girls are unjustly losing medals, podium spots, public recognition and the opportunity to compete when males take their place. >> athletes billie jean king and candace parker fighting against the west virginia law fightsing for transgender student rights b but -- the justice department has said in court filings an

currently 19 states including west virginia have transgender athlete bands in public schools per the justice department formally opposes west virginia read writing in the statement of interest that federal law title ix protects transgendered girls against unlawful this commission in scholastic sports riley gaines swam competitively for the university of kentucky and publicly criticize transgender university of pennsylvania swimmer leah thomas. >> if you believe in science another's man and woman. to deny that is to deny science it is to deny logic. >> does get so west virginia law stays cruel and illegal the aclu telling fox news the allies had to picked unique incident in the overwhelming evidence transgender youth to participate in team sports has benefits for all. >> the supreme court is expected to issue an order in the coming weeks. in washington, david spunt fox news. >> two men in a 16 yoga under arrest for shoplifting hundreds of cans of powdered baby formula they targeted supermarkets in georgia and cops found them with $26000 worth of the cans. this is as the u.s. faces an

our works in west virginia, bernard in the district of columbia. which is not a state and does not have the full democratic autonomy that all the other states too. in d.c., congress has the power to sweep in and overturn the law. and guess what? that's exactly what the republican-controlled house voted to do last month. now with the help of a handful of democratic senators senators including joe manchin, the senate is forced to do the same. joe manchin, in a majority of the native state senator going to tell the residents of district of columbia, who of course are the ones who will experience the effects of this law, what is safest for them. they don't get to tell west virginia that they probably shouldn't malott of guns on campus. that doesn't work in both directions. most people assumed that print like president joe biden, who has been a vocal supporter of home roland self determination in the district of columbia, would veto this. but now. no no. in a surprising and disappointing twist, yesterday the president announced that while he supports d.

. ♪ >> west virginia senator joe manchin expressed his desire for the white house to propose a budgeteals with the national debt. he also reiterated the need for the no budget no pay act that he proposed. to the scheduled votes. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. manchin: mr. president, i rise today to thank my friend from oklahoma, senator james lankford for continuing the senate's long tradition of delivering president george washington's farewell address earlier this week. it's an annual reminder of what is great about america, but it is erie how his warnings ring true today even that you it -- thousand it was delivered some 207 years ago. he warned of the dangers of putting the will of political party ahead of the will of the nation. he also warned against the accumulation of debt and encouraged us to cherish public credit. as a very important source of strength and security. my personal relationship with this and understanding is my grandfather affectionately known as papa joe, he would always say joe, if you have unmanaged debt, you will make cowardly decisions of how

and thanks for the perspective from west virginia. i think it is an important one and something that gets overlooked a lot of folks in this town. i will say that gm, general electric, both companies still manufacture in the united states. you can find appliances and cars in the united states. just because it is an american company, that doesn't mean it is going to be manufactured here. looking at the label is incredibly important for all of that, and having access to it. by the way, a lot of folks want to make it harder for consumers to know where their products would be made we are fighting back against that at the federal trade commission and in congress, to make sure there is truth in labeling and that things are well labeled, so consumers know exactly what they are buying. but it is also true, in the case of both appliances and automobiles, where there used to be a lot of domestic production, there is now a lot of imports coming in as well. there's many complicated reasons for that as well. again, i am optimistic. bradley, i have

. >>> in tonight's eye on america, a small town in the mountains of west virginia is still rebuildingseven years after a deadly flood destroyed almost everything in its path. cbs's scott macfarlane visits the town and the historic resort that's helping the community recover. >> reporter: white sulfur springs, west virginia, its mountains, and its iconic greenbrier resort has attracted 28 u.s. presidents and british royalty, and was riding an unrivaled history until the day it was nearly wiped off the map. >> it's so hard to explain. like i can still see it to this day. it seems like it just happened yeterday. >> reporter: mackenzie was pregnant and returning home from work when her home washed away. >> it came up off the found dpags and floated about a football field away into my neighbor's house behind me. >> reporter: in summer 2016, a thousand-year flood ravaged the city. how many people were lost? >> there were 13 that perished. >> reporter: business owner tom crabtree says raging waters ripped apart downtown, triggered fires and landslides. >> people are in some of these trees? >

when you see west virginias look at me not as a republican or democrat but i delivered.e been up front and transparent. i feel good about the election, whatever decision we make here. i'm going to make sure that my country and my state has the ability to function normally and not in a dysfunctioning way and not being tornado aport by the toxic political atmosphere -- >> neil: would you run as a democrat or republican? some say you're considering becoming a republican or maybe an independent? >> neil, i'm going to do whatever i can. there's plenty of time between now and then to do whatever i can to help my country get our financial house -- >> you're not ruling it out. when you said earlier you wouldn't support the president because he's a democrat, you would choose the man or the -- >> i'm going to support the best path for the country and how we make our country better and stronger and more united. right now i don't think anybody can say that we're together and united. that's the political parties tearing this apart. we have to come together. if one party can do that b

it's to deny logic. >> those against a west virginia law says it's cruel and illegal.e a.g. and allies have cherry picked unique incidents and ignored the overwhelming evidence that allowing transgender youth to participate in team sports has benefits for all. the supreme court is expected to issue an order in the coming weeks. bret? >> bret: david spunt at the justice department. david, thank you. >> bret: fox weather alert now what is called a strong atmospheric river is slamming california this weekend. that means more extreme flooding along with snow and high winds. evacuations have been ordered in parts of northern california. fox weather correspondent max gorden is in snow quell, california tonight. good evening, max. >> hey, good evening, bret. president biden approving an emergency declaration for california as another winter storm slams the state. the california national guard headed here to santa cruz county to help out with the flood response and the flood response is currently ongoing. you can see this r -- you can se this road stranding. officials have fou

host: is west virginia part of that? >> absolutely. host: scott, was virginia, good morning.ler: good morning, gentlemen. what about all the dead whales on the east coast? that's my only question. guest: the reason that whales are dying are many reasons. one reason is the sonic boom that has enveloped our oceans as a result of commercial shipping. it leaves them unable to hunt, unable to start a family. unable to find their way through migratory routes. if there is an issue here, please investigate it. we haven't seen any evidence yet that wind turbines are killing whales. i'm glad you called because the eastern plateau of west virginia is one of the leading wind producers anywhere in the nation. the wind coming over the mountains. west virginia is an important part. it has advanced manufacturing work being done at the university of west virginia that is helping our workplaces become more efficient. we are grateful for the contribution of the people of west virginia. host: kenny stein on west virginia as a case study for where energy was and where it is going. >> west virgini

the presiding officer: the senator from west virginia. mrs. capito: i want to thank the chair presenting his side of the argument and now we're going to hear from the other side of the argument about why taking down this rule will pass today because of the strong opposition to it. today we're going to have the opportunity to bring a divided congress together. united and rejected misguided and unnecessary overreach by the executive branch. and it's an attempt to regulate basically anything and everything the bidening administration once again overstepped its boundaries and the waters of the u.s. rule or wotus as we have heard and they did this past december. it's the third major change in eight years. the chairman talked about all the uncertainty. this is the third change in eight years to the definition of what waters are and what is a subject of federal jurisdiction and with this comes more uncertainty, more red tape, more government for millions of americans. it's clear we needed to take action in the face of this burdensome rule. and it's e

west virginia senator -- >> appreciate it. neil: joe manchin. we have the dow up 80 points right now. more on that china issue that has gotten a big issue on capitol hill today with the move afoot to ban tiktok out right on this country. can't have it on your phone, can't have it anywhere after this. ♪. for businesses of all sizes, there are a lot of choices when it comes to your internet and technology needs. when you choose comcast business internet, you choose the largest, fastest reliable network. you choose advanced security for total peace of mind. and you choose a next generation 10g network that's always improving, getting faster; more reliable; and more intelligent to keep you ready for today and tomorrow. the choice is clear: make your business future ready with the network from the most innovative company. comcast business. powering possibilities™. good luck. td ameritrade, this is anna. hi anna, this position is all over the place, help! hey professor, subscriptions are down but that's only an estimated 15% of their valuation. do you

plus come in tonight's "eye on america," we visit a small west virginia town that is still recoveringfetime flood. but first, the ceo of tiktok facing tough questions from lawmakers today, during and often-tense hearing about the safety and security of the popular social media app. members of both parties grilled show chu about the company's ties to china and harmful content pushed on children. the future of tiktok here in the united states, along with its 150 million u.s. users remains up in the air, with the biden administration threatening to ban the app. a new cbs news paul mack shows 1% of americans support that ban. cbs news' nikole killion was at the hearing and she is going to start us off tonight from capitol hill. good evening, nicole. >> reporter: good evening, norah. this was a grueling hearing that ousted more than five hours as tiktok ceo defended his platform in his first appearance on capitol hill. >> we do not trust tiktok will ev beginning, shou zi chew, the ceo of the most-downloaded app in the past two years, face intense scrutiny. >> my time is up, and if this com

it would affect millions of students and parents across the country. 18 states including west virginiae transgender athlete bands and schools. justice signed this law claiming these transgender students have an unfair competitive advantage. the american civil liberties union and west virginia chapter sued on behalf of an 11-year-old transgender girl who wanted to compete on a cross-country team. the district judge in west virginia upheld the state law but appeals court recently put that ruling on hold giving trans athletes to compete in female sports for now. morrissey is taking his fight to the high court in washington, d.c., but not on the merits of the case. here he is. >> west virginians and the american people know this is a matter of basic common sense and basic fairness. >> so morrissey wants to get this in front of the justices as soon as possible. but the question, can display out in the lower courts as the justices go ahead and debate this? they are expecting to issue a ruling probably pretty soon in a few weeks given the nature and the weight of this case. there are several

i live here in west virginia and they have a terrific coke problem. food stamps most of it is traded off with 50 cents on the dollar to buy dope with. host: how do you know that? you have to have evidence we make that sort of claim. caller: i do know people who are doing that. host: but that is anecdotal. caller: put a work requirement to it. i'm a veteran. i do not have much confidence in the v.a. system. it is more for the v.a. employees who are bottom of the barrel doctors, bottom of the barrel nurses. when we give money to other countries, they have to be able to show where it goes rather than afghani president who took off who is now a rich man on our tax dollars. ukraine. same with all these other dictators. let's leave the taxes alone and let everybody go to work. host: alex in d.c., democratic caller. your reaction to the president budget requests. caller: i really appreciate c-span because y'all do cover all of these hearings like where the money is going in ukraine and all of that. i encourage everyone calling in making the claims to go back

. >> west virginia soccer player could give supreme court first shot at ruling on a transgender sportsral patrick morrisey asking the highest court to step in allow a law banning male student alth lethals who identify present themselves as female from playing in he woman he's sports teams the west virginia attorney general, himself patrick morrisey ag welcome back good to see you tell us about this case. >> good to see you, maria, this is an incredible case an situation west virginia legislature, got in front of the curve did right thing anticipating a lot of what would happen issues with cleo thomas initiativecaa women's swimming championships west virginia said biological males should not compete in have women's shorts to, ensure women's sports could be advanced immediately challenged interestingly there was an injunction slapped against the law right away after we submitted 500 entries 3,000 pages entries district court judge, democrat appointed sided with us it went to fourth circuit reversed unfortunately injunction placed against law now we think this is a very clean case, becaus

>> in west virginia, we see supply driving demand.'s so much supply, so much first, prescription pain pills and heroin and methamphetamine, now fentanyl, so much slung on the streets, it drove demand. so, we have a high rate of addiction in our state. and so, we have to address recovery. we have to offer alternative solutions for folks to live their lives. >> you know about recovery firsthand. tell folks a little bit about yourself. >> as a physician, i had access to prescription pain medication and my sample covered. and when life got stressed, i had a headache, i would take. one and sampling that drove me heavily into addiction. i was my own dealer. i had access to all kinds of pain pills. >> how long were you doing that? >> probably 20 years. but i've been sober 19 years. this is my 19th year sober recovery point. >> yes! >> [applause] >> i'm so happy you're here. >> and now i just want to give back to people. i'm in the same town that i was contributor amd a casualty of the opioid deck epidemic. i want to get. back i want to show

in west virginia versus the epa they said that there is not clear authorization.s to the point that secretary devos use this for a pause. it was a big rule. that conflates pauses with debt cancellation belies a basic distinction between policies that change the terms of repayment and policies that eliminate the rights to repayment. host: the states don't have standing in this. what happens then? elizabeth: if there is no finding of standing in the courts don't reach the merits at all. then what would happen is you have to see whether there was some other plaintiff that wanted to bring this case who was able to show that they have a concrete entry that is directly traceable to the secretaries targeted. host: that seems to be the second case with the two students? elizabeth: except the case has standing problems as well. the united states makes the argument that what they are asking for is greater student debt relief and the remedy that the court would offer declaring the program unlawful would give them no relief and nobody gets relief. it would not redress the inj