i remember whafghanistan fighti very hard just to get police training, because the eu said they would do police training, but really did not do police training -- some, but not much -- and we had to find a way around to help nato create the training for paramilitary police forces so we could bring them in in another capacity. then when you get beyond that, which is still a security-oriented one, the only things i can think of that nato has been really successful at have been disaster relief and negotiations where, say, secretary general robertson or solano before him would get involved in a situation to politically dissolve a crisis. largely, again, because of the way nato has solved things, we've never separated them from military laws. >> how far do you want nato to go beyond their core military missions, beyond collective defense? you are going to sap up much political will getting into realms that are not nato's strong points. i'm struck by general cartwright's idea where ensuring integration with their efforts in non-military realms. >> i think we had a good formula for which, wh