if you're airline or trucking company you want to hedge your price so you don't get really whawwallop. we've seen a financialization of oil in which financial markets, financial players are more active in the oil market than they used to be i think it's more than speculators it's investors. people with hedge funds but also people in pension funds, state pension funds as well. >> rose: at what price would oil have a devastating impact on the world economy? >> well, charlie depends what you mean by devastating. i think as oil prices go -- >> rose: put the brakes on the economic recovery in the united states and around the global, around the world. >> well i think if we were looking at $4.50 or $5 gasoline in the united states, that would be a pretty bug set bac big setr economic recovery. it would affect consumers, it would affect spending. it would take tens of billions of dollars out of consumers pockets. it would affect a lot of companies and it would affect something else which you can already see it would start to effect confidence and people would pull back. so i don't think we're