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supervisor wiener: thank you, chairman. i want to thank everyone, both in the chamber today as well as in the overflow room, for taking the time to be here today and to take time away from your busy schedules and your jobs and families and life to be here for this issue. i know that it is not convenient to come to city hall in the middle of the day, so thank you. we have limited public space in san francisco and a lot of different uses of those spaces. [bell rings] supervisor wiener: am i done? [laughter] ok, now we can go home. any time we have a discussion about how we utilize our limited public spaces, those discussions are controversial and results in passionate views on the subject. but we owe it to the people of san francisco to engage in these important discussions. many san franciscans have dogs. dogs need outdoor exercise, for recreation, and dog owners need access to outdoor space with their dogs. we have seen in san francisco city parks the conflict that some time occurs between those with dogs and those without
supervisor wiener: thank you, chairman. i want to thank everyone, both in the chamber today as well as in the overflow room, for taking the time to be here today and to take time away from your busy schedules and your jobs and families and life to be here for this issue. i know that it is not convenient to come to city hall in the middle of the day, so thank you. we have limited public space in san francisco and a lot of different uses of those spaces. [bell rings] supervisor wiener: am i done?...
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president chiu: supervisor wiener. supervisor wiener: thank you. and i just want to acknowledge think a appreciate supervisor elsbernd's desire that we have collaborative relationship with the ggnra and i just want to be clear that i don't think both are mutually exclusive. when you have a partnership with another organization or another governmental entity, you can be very collaborative with that person and still -- or that entity a -- and still say when you think that that entity is doing something that is wrong. they're not inconsistent. and in fact the language of this resolution makes very clear that we can intend to continue to work with the ggnra and frankly before this resolution was introduced there was a very different dynamic in terms of ggnra's willingness to collaborate with the city. so i think this has been a very productive process and i have every confidence that we're all grown ups and everyone's going to continue to work well together after tonight. thank you. president chiu: thank you, mr. chair. first of all, i want to thank su
president chiu: supervisor wiener. supervisor wiener: thank you. and i just want to acknowledge think a appreciate supervisor elsbernd's desire that we have collaborative relationship with the ggnra and i just want to be clear that i don't think both are mutually exclusive. when you have a partnership with another organization or another governmental entity, you can be very collaborative with that person and still -- or that entity a -- and still say when you think that that entity is doing...
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supervisor wiener: thank you. thank you. i just heard someone shout above "secure our community is," and i know a lot of us in city government are not big fans of a secure communities. we are with you on not. speak directly into the microphone, but not too close, because then it is hard for us to hear. thank you. >> good evening. thank you for holding this meeting in for your service. my question is this -- the dinosaur. i went to mission high school. i may be passe. i am also a maritime safety officer, retired, and longshoremen, retired. these are from a passe decade, maybe. recently i saw a short video on the need streetcar corridor not closing, including a video of a city official on sides taking no corrective action in what is obviously a very dangerous incident. later i saw the same city officials say, "i felt it was ok, because i knew it was open." if injury would have occurred, it would have been clear negligence. on the part of the driver and any lawyer could make a case for gross negligence if there was a
supervisor wiener: thank you. thank you. i just heard someone shout above "secure our community is," and i know a lot of us in city government are not big fans of a secure communities. we are with you on not. speak directly into the microphone, but not too close, because then it is hard for us to hear. thank you. >> good evening. thank you for holding this meeting in for your service. my question is this -- the dinosaur. i went to mission high school. i may be passe. i am also a...
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Apr 20, 2011
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[applause] supervisor wiener: thank you, ed. two more written questions, and then we will open it up to live questions from the audience. where do low income use fit in priorities for the mayor? mayor lee: they fit very high. low income use is reflected in all of the programs, whether it is phil ginsberg to making sure our parks are open and affordable for our use, -- youth, or it is muni where there were free passes for low-income youth, and working with bill, making sure we have a fair justice system that reunites youth with family. i had a chance to meet with members of coleman advocates. they told me a serious story about low income youth in the city. there is about 900 kids, primarily african-american and hispanic, low-income, the dots -- that got f grades and were not going to graduate unless they went to summer school. he no state law is to have to pass those glasses to graduates -- classes to graduate. you're going to see a whole generation of low-income kids not graduate from high school. knowing there is in the generat
[applause] supervisor wiener: thank you, ed. two more written questions, and then we will open it up to live questions from the audience. where do low income use fit in priorities for the mayor? mayor lee: they fit very high. low income use is reflected in all of the programs, whether it is phil ginsberg to making sure our parks are open and affordable for our use, -- youth, or it is muni where there were free passes for low-income youth, and working with bill, making sure we have a fair...
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Apr 17, 2011
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supervisor wiener: those are the questions i had. supervisor mar: i had a couple questions about ocean beach. can you walk us through one of the federal a threatened species? and what did you have on reports of dogs and during -- injuring them and the rationale for balance with the critical habitat and the sensitive species? >> at ocean beach, the area where the birds are is between the middle of golden gate park. the area is currently closed to 10 months of the year while the birds are present. we have observers that monitor the birds occasionally. they observe how birds being flushed by dogs and are running through the area or jogging along. i could provide more information if needed. it is against the law for district while life. -- wildlife. >> the plan would create a seasonal leash restriction? >> it is confusing to people. and i am the right amount cannot? 10 months -- right month or not? 10 months versus 12. the 12 month closure in the are a 00-- supervisor mar: and i would be interested in the other groups information. the un
supervisor wiener: those are the questions i had. supervisor mar: i had a couple questions about ocean beach. can you walk us through one of the federal a threatened species? and what did you have on reports of dogs and during -- injuring them and the rationale for balance with the critical habitat and the sensitive species? >> at ocean beach, the area where the birds are is between the middle of golden gate park. the area is currently closed to 10 months of the year while the birds are...
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supervisor wiener, mayor. our office is probably one of the smaller offices, and our budget is $39 million a year, and actually when you adjust for inflation, we have less money today than we did in 1986, even though life is much more complicated now than it was in 1986. we recognize we have our responsibility to become better at what we did. we are undergoing a major reorganization. the goal is to look for ways to lower in carson nation, deal with those low level nuisances. so, we have created neighborhood boards. we have been talking to various communities, and this is basically a decriminalized way of handling the issue. we're working with other partners in the criminal justice system to work more effectively with more serious crime, with more backlog. we have a significant backlog. year-to-date, we have over 70 homicide cases that are over three years old. we have many -- many prosecutors aren't carrying a caseload of approximately 200 -- many prosecutors are carrying a caseload of approximately 200 cases.
supervisor wiener, mayor. our office is probably one of the smaller offices, and our budget is $39 million a year, and actually when you adjust for inflation, we have less money today than we did in 1986, even though life is much more complicated now than it was in 1986. we recognize we have our responsibility to become better at what we did. we are undergoing a major reorganization. the goal is to look for ways to lower in carson nation, deal with those low level nuisances. so, we have created...
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Apr 13, 2011
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supervisor wiener: 80. hi. >> hi, supervisors. i am arthur feinstein, a chapter of the sierra club and on a conservation club. you have been told that there is no problem with off leash dog walking on the beaches and ggrna because there is no impact, so i just want you to make a logical leap from what i tell you to seeing how the impact is happening on our beaches. this is a recent issue of the national wildlife federation, where they're talking about the loss of wetlands and other habitat for birds, in particular, they're talking about shorebirds. these are normally small things, two ounces, and even the big ones are four ounces. they are a small way, but they are large, and one can travel 7,000 miles in a few days. this is 6 ounces. where does all of that energy come from, eight days not feeding? whoa, they do something that is very miraculous. they actually absorb their digestive tract, so a the end of the day, when they land on places like the beach, where lots of these migratory birds come down, they h
supervisor wiener: 80. hi. >> hi, supervisors. i am arthur feinstein, a chapter of the sierra club and on a conservation club. you have been told that there is no problem with off leash dog walking on the beaches and ggrna because there is no impact, so i just want you to make a logical leap from what i tell you to seeing how the impact is happening on our beaches. this is a recent issue of the national wildlife federation, where they're talking about the loss of wetlands and other...
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Apr 3, 2011
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commissioner wiener: great. those are the questions that i have, and unless supervisor avalos has questions, perhaps we could open it up to the public to comment. >> thank you. commissioner wiener: thank you very much for the presentation. so, i have a few cards here and i'll call them and then if there's anyone else -- i assume there may be others who want to comment -- if you could just line up and then just state your name before you speak. everyone has two minutes. you'll hear a soft bell at 90 seconds meaning you have 30 seconds left and then a loud one at two minutes, meaning you should finish your sentence and then we'll move to the next person. so we'll start with mr. sossner and mr. planhold. those are the two cards i have. >> good afternoon, again, supervisors. howard frasner. first i have to say, a list of probable or expected improvements, that looks like a good list, a few less stops and signals and one has to comment, first, on changing signal lights. this city is a transit-first city but when we h
commissioner wiener: great. those are the questions that i have, and unless supervisor avalos has questions, perhaps we could open it up to the public to comment. >> thank you. commissioner wiener: thank you very much for the presentation. so, i have a few cards here and i'll call them and then if there's anyone else -- i assume there may be others who want to comment -- if you could just line up and then just state your name before you speak. everyone has two minutes. you'll hear a soft...
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Apr 17, 2011
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supervisor wiener: next speaker. you can just come up. >> thank you, supervisors, for putting this together. i have been here for over 30 years and have been a first-time dog owner for the last six years. i am concerned about limiting at ggrna. i take my service dog moly with me just about everywhere i go. we usually have two trips a day, and those are her most fun play times, when she gets the most exercise, and my tax dollars are at stake. it is part of what i pay taxes for, and believe me, i pay a lot. that is all i have to say. thank you very much. supervisor wiener: thank you very much. i just want to acknowledge its supervisor david campos has joined us. welcome, supervisor. next speaker. >> hello, my name is jan scott, and i live in the sunset district, and i have been taking my children to the beaches before the ggrna was even involved in this situation. i have a job on the beach with my various dogs. this is my most important recreation and probablymy most pleasurable activity. i would like to use the time t
supervisor wiener: next speaker. you can just come up. >> thank you, supervisors, for putting this together. i have been here for over 30 years and have been a first-time dog owner for the last six years. i am concerned about limiting at ggrna. i take my service dog moly with me just about everywhere i go. we usually have two trips a day, and those are her most fun play times, when she gets the most exercise, and my tax dollars are at stake. it is part of what i pay taxes for, and believe...
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Apr 11, 2011
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supervisor wiener: 80. next speaker. >> i am a third-generation san franciscan and work with the nature conservancy along with other groups. i am now retired, but my entire career was dedicated to the restoration of california national resources. -- natural resources. i am here to voice my opposition on the dog management koran. dense urban areas like san francisco are not what cash strapped agencies should be delivering most of their resources. we all know the people in all of their diversity and pursuing all of their activities recreation or allies impact the natural environment wherever they are. because of this, agencies should focus their efforts on making the urban environment as enjoyable for as many people as possible in order to avoid the much greater impact that occurs when residents, feeling the pinch of restrictions, flee to the suburbs or rural areas where natural habitats are is inevitably more tax and therefore more vulnerable. ggrna's proposal will lead a miniscule one-tenth of 1% of lands a
supervisor wiener: 80. next speaker. >> i am a third-generation san franciscan and work with the nature conservancy along with other groups. i am now retired, but my entire career was dedicated to the restoration of california national resources. -- natural resources. i am here to voice my opposition on the dog management koran. dense urban areas like san francisco are not what cash strapped agencies should be delivering most of their resources. we all know the people in all of their...
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Apr 21, 2011
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supervisor wiener: thank you. before we get into questions from the audience -- and we are ahead of schedule -- i want to knowledge some of the other folks that are here tonight and will be available to answer questions as well. we have the department of public health. steve richey from the public utilities commission, the assistant -- assistant or deputy -- deputy superintendent for any san francisco unified school district, and the chief of juvenile probation. so, a number of you were kind enough to submit written questions. i am going to start with a few of them, and then we're going to have open questions from the audience, and we will probably go back and forth, shake it up a little bit. so, this is a lengthy question from rebecca at the lgbt center. san francisco has 8000, of whom 40% -- i apologize. in recovering from a cold. they are homeless are marginally house and face challenges including physical and mental health issues, unemployment, substance-abuse, hiv risk, and lack of access to services. the cit
supervisor wiener: thank you. before we get into questions from the audience -- and we are ahead of schedule -- i want to knowledge some of the other folks that are here tonight and will be available to answer questions as well. we have the department of public health. steve richey from the public utilities commission, the assistant -- assistant or deputy -- deputy superintendent for any san francisco unified school district, and the chief of juvenile probation. so, a number of you were kind...
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Apr 26, 2011
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wiener for his co sponsorship of this. i think this helps streamline what the law should be. department public works has been looking for this enhanced tool, and that is exactly what this ordinance does. supervisor chiu: colleagues, can we take this item same house, same call? without objection, the ordinance is passed on first reading. why don't we skip across the 3:00 special orders that we have, and it 3:00 -- the 3:34 " special orders for the a corporate time, and to the committee reports. item 15. >> items 15 and 16 were considered by the rules committee at a regular meeting on april 1. 15 is a motion appointing supervisor david campos, a term ending february 10, 2015, to the metropolitan transportation commission. supervisor chiu: ken will have a motion to excuse supervisor campos -- can we have a motion to excuse supervisor campos? colleagues, can we have a roll call vote on this motion. >> chu aye. cohen aye. elsbernd aye. farrell aye. kim aye. mar aye. mirkarimi aye. wiener aye. avalos aye. chiu aye. there are 10
wiener for his co sponsorship of this. i think this helps streamline what the law should be. department public works has been looking for this enhanced tool, and that is exactly what this ordinance does. supervisor chiu: colleagues, can we take this item same house, same call? without objection, the ordinance is passed on first reading. why don't we skip across the 3:00 special orders that we have, and it 3:00 -- the 3:34 " special orders for the a corporate time, and to the committee...
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supervisor wiener? commissioner wiener: thank you, mr. president. i first want to thank everyone who took the time to come out today and for those who were here earlier and couldn't stick around, and i say this at every hearing, but it's true, that you-all have things to do in your life and jobs and families and t.v. shows to watch on comcast and i do -- it shows a commitment to the city, with everyone's opinion, that you spent many hours here today. as i've learned and as i know my colleagues have learned recently, there are unbelievably strong opinions on both sides of this issue. and it's a really -- seems like a really big divide but i think the divide actually is not as big as it might seem. i think there's probably broad agreement that we want this technology in san francisco. but i think it's pretty darn important that we have it here as competition to comcast as a new product. and i think there's also broad consensus that we don't want blight on our sidewalks. so if this is going to happen and, you know, the reason i was asking the questions
supervisor wiener? commissioner wiener: thank you, mr. president. i first want to thank everyone who took the time to come out today and for those who were here earlier and couldn't stick around, and i say this at every hearing, but it's true, that you-all have things to do in your life and jobs and families and t.v. shows to watch on comcast and i do -- it shows a commitment to the city, with everyone's opinion, that you spent many hours here today. as i've learned and as i know my colleagues...
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i would like to thank supervisors wiener -- supervisor wiener for his leadership and ask you all to vote yes on this and pass it forward to the full board. >> i am a small property owner in san francisco. i'm here to speak in favor of the ordinance. i want to applaud supervisor wiener for reaching out to all parties involved in this. i think it is a fine ordinance. i have a few concerns about, which i have expressed, and that is that no good deed goes unpunished. i am concerned about small property owners who may not know all the intricacies of the ordinance that might not give the required forms to the tenant, and therefore, will be stuck with a long-term renters at a below market rate that they did not intend to enter into that kind of contract, so i hope that the board will come up with a corporate forms that it -- come up with appropriate forms that a property owner can use to make the necessary disclosure to tenants. thank you. supervisor wiener: is there any further public comment? yes, i'm sorry, peter, right. >> i am the executive director of small property owners. i just wanted
i would like to thank supervisors wiener -- supervisor wiener for his leadership and ask you all to vote yes on this and pass it forward to the full board. >> i am a small property owner in san francisco. i'm here to speak in favor of the ordinance. i want to applaud supervisor wiener for reaching out to all parties involved in this. i think it is a fine ordinance. i have a few concerns about, which i have expressed, and that is that no good deed goes unpunished. i am concerned about...
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Apr 14, 2011
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supervisor wiener: the $7.5 million. for those organizations, how much are you proposing that they received through the competitive process? >> a majority. many of them were early care and education. the large one that we just completed included the team programs. those had added categories combined. it was close to half of that add-back. supervisor wiener: are there any of the organizations or categories that are being impacted beyond other categories? >> i do have to say that last year, which suffered a $10 million reduction. $8 million at the end of the day of reductions in the budget that came from both the children's fund and the general fund. because of that, we had $8 million left to give back to the community. we could not fund all the programs that we thought needed to be funded. we had a $20 million available for funding and we had $70 million. we only funded hundred and 50 of those. we are more than happy to pick up some of those agencies. it really helped some of the agencies how that did not receive funding.
supervisor wiener: the $7.5 million. for those organizations, how much are you proposing that they received through the competitive process? >> a majority. many of them were early care and education. the large one that we just completed included the team programs. those had added categories combined. it was close to half of that add-back. supervisor wiener: are there any of the organizations or categories that are being impacted beyond other categories? >> i do have to say that last...
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supervisor wiener: next speaker. or singer. >> ♪ running free like you want your best friend to be now he's running real fast as he can now ♪ ♪ and the dog will have fun fun fun at fort funsten unless you take the off-leash dog law away and the dog will have fun fun fun unless you take the off-leash dog law away ♪ ♪ and you can jump or your dog jumping if you want to feel the freedom of your dog jump jump for the dog tell me now if you want your dog to be happy and free that jumps for your dog. ♪ ♪ jump for your dog today ♪ [applause] supervisor wiener: thank you. >> my name is sheila mahoney, fortunately for you, i want same today. i am a four-year resident of san francisco and i am a senior. since 1989, my husband and i have walked our dogs almost every single day we did not have to work. and i suggest that you visit it yourself to judge what is going on there. i am also a longtime volunteer with the san francisco spca. i have taken my dog to hospitals, rehab units, psych wards. dogs to help heal the body and the s
supervisor wiener: next speaker. or singer. >> ♪ running free like you want your best friend to be now he's running real fast as he can now ♪ ♪ and the dog will have fun fun fun at fort funsten unless you take the off-leash dog law away and the dog will have fun fun fun unless you take the off-leash dog law away ♪ ♪ and you can jump or your dog jumping if you want to feel the freedom of your dog jump jump for the dog tell me now if you want your dog to be happy and free that...
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[chime] supervisor wiener: next speaker. >> supervisor cohen, supervisor wiener, thank you for having this hearing. even from the testimony
[chime] supervisor wiener: next speaker. >> supervisor cohen, supervisor wiener, thank you for having this hearing. even from the testimony
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Apr 27, 2011
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supervisor wiener: thank you. i do not think we have seen now online and 7 on your side.. the meeting is at the hall of flowers. may 12. it is in my newsletter. if you want to get my e-mail newsletter, let me know. we will put you on. next question. >> hi. my name is jean. i graduated from this high school. i have to disagree with you. the amount of coyotoes -- last night, coming home, i had still wait in my car before i entered my house. they are roaming rapidly. i had to call safeway, and the people who owned the complex there said they were back there at night, looking for food. in know that they have left the golden gate park area. they have become brazen. they are walking during the day. at night. two weeks ago, they were trying to get on my balcony. they are all over. not just in diamond heights. glen park. they have frightened away the raccoons, and there is another area in san francisco. this is a serious situation. this needs to be addressed. when i can get out of my car, if i have to go to say -- i do no
supervisor wiener: thank you. i do not think we have seen now online and 7 on your side.. the meeting is at the hall of flowers. may 12. it is in my newsletter. if you want to get my e-mail newsletter, let me know. we will put you on. next question. >> hi. my name is jean. i graduated from this high school. i have to disagree with you. the amount of coyotoes -- last night, coming home, i had still wait in my car before i entered my house. they are roaming rapidly. i had to call safeway,...
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Apr 21, 2011
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supervisor wiener, mayor. our office is probably one of the smaller offices, and our budget is $39 million a year, and actually when you adjust for inflation, we have less money today than we did in 1986, even though life is much more complicated now than it was in 1986. we recognize we have our responsibility to become better at what we did. we are undergoing a major reorganization. the goal is to look for ways to lower in carson nation, deal with those low level nuisances. so, we have
supervisor wiener, mayor. our office is probably one of the smaller offices, and our budget is $39 million a year, and actually when you adjust for inflation, we have less money today than we did in 1986, even though life is much more complicated now than it was in 1986. we recognize we have our responsibility to become better at what we did. we are undergoing a major reorganization. the goal is to look for ways to lower in carson nation, deal with those low level nuisances. so, we have
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supervisor wiener: thank you. i have a question about how the improvements are being serviced once this happens. i know we have had the many problems with the subway, having to do with it out dated central control system and we have seen some of shutdowns of the system, basically. and also getting the lrb's behind the portal at church street, church and market safeway. it is painfully slow. independents point that we have with lrb's getting to that station because of the merger of multiple lines is also painful at times. i would just like to have a better understanding of how this will tangibly improve the functioning of this system. >> the expectation, of course, is for the system to improve the service. the efficiencies will be involved in it. i would like to talk more about what that would mean. supervisor wiener: thank you. >> good morning, commissioners. we are bringing in the central control project when what you have before you is really a facility control project. it has to do a lot with consolidation of f
supervisor wiener: thank you. i have a question about how the improvements are being serviced once this happens. i know we have had the many problems with the subway, having to do with it out dated central control system and we have seen some of shutdowns of the system, basically. and also getting the lrb's behind the portal at church street, church and market safeway. it is painfully slow. independents point that we have with lrb's getting to that station because of the merger of multiple...
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[chime] supervisor wiener: next speaker. >> supervisor cohen, supervisor wiener, thank you for having this hearing. even from the testimony of the superintendent was deficient. as far as the arguments of the people with half leashed dog or recreation, i think it epitomizes the view of the testimony of the representative from the audubon society that said it might or might not have been killed by the doghous, it t or might not have teeth marks on it. that is a good reason >> thank you. one quick thing i wanted to know. this has been an amazing turnout. our plan -- the second part of this hearing has been about the resolution of commercial dog-walkers. after this meeting we wanted to go back and approach this subject. we probably have another half-hour to an hour of this aspect of the hearing, so i don't think we're going to have time to do that today because we're going to lose a quorum. so what we'll do is finish all the public comment on ggnra. if there's anyone here -- we'll continue the remainder of the hearing and have public comment at a subsequent hearing on that. if there's any
[chime] supervisor wiener: next speaker. >> supervisor cohen, supervisor wiener, thank you for having this hearing. even from the testimony of the superintendent was deficient. as far as the arguments of the people with half leashed dog or recreation, i think it epitomizes the view of the testimony of the representative from the audubon society that said it might or might not have been killed by the doghous, it t or might not have teeth marks on it. that is a good reason >> thank...
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supervisor wiener: thank you very much. the next speaker. >> that you for taking my comments. the proposed changes would affect my life on many levels. first, on a personal level, i would no longer have a place to exercise with my dogs. on a business level, dog walking business would be severely affected, and my livelihood would be in great danger. as a responsible member, of the committee, i am deeply concerned. i do not even want to imagine what my day-to-day life and look like if i do not have the ability to go to the park and exercise with my dogs. i think it is important to mention we're talking about 1% of the ggrna. that is a small amount of space to make sure that people have a place to exercise. we need to provide adequate space for them to exercise. we also, however, have a responsibility to preserving be national and natural parks. that being said, i believe we can come up with a better solution, one that serves everyone. the gentleman from the ggrna mentioned that the other areas would be large. that is not true
supervisor wiener: thank you very much. the next speaker. >> that you for taking my comments. the proposed changes would affect my life on many levels. first, on a personal level, i would no longer have a place to exercise with my dogs. on a business level, dog walking business would be severely affected, and my livelihood would be in great danger. as a responsible member, of the committee, i am deeply concerned. i do not even want to imagine what my day-to-day life and look like if i do...
SFGTV: San Francisco Government Television
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commissioner wiener: you answered it. it was about whether they should pick people up and you answered that. i appreciate that. >> one of the things, also, just as an aside to that, that we, for reasons of reliability, we have looked at whether or not we could move n line runs and i did it briefly for a couple of weeks with some of them while we fixed green yard to m.m.e. and that would take some of the stress off of the j line in terms of pulling in, pulling out. the trade-off for us is in terms of having the n service further away from the end point drives up the operating cost a bit. so. commissioner wiener: another question, and we discussed this briefly the other day, the possibility -- this could be a good thing or not a good thing, of having the j, instead of going into the tunnel, having it go up market street, having it make a right on church on to market and if that were something that could improve the reliability of the line, and i have no idea if it would, but if that would -- if that would in terms of avoidi
commissioner wiener: you answered it. it was about whether they should pick people up and you answered that. i appreciate that. >> one of the things, also, just as an aside to that, that we, for reasons of reliability, we have looked at whether or not we could move n line runs and i did it briefly for a couple of weeks with some of them while we fixed green yard to m.m.e. and that would take some of the stress off of the j line in terms of pulling in, pulling out. the trade-off for us is...