so wilkens looked at what williams said was self-defense and said that's not what you advocated. you advocated political violence, and we at the, the, ts aacp -- naacp will have none of this. at the same time, he says, listen, the naacp cut its teeth on supporting black folk who stood up with firearms and defends -- defended themselves. the sweet case was actually the case that funded, was the impulse pulse for funding the naacp legal defense fund. there were steve green, another example. all of these early 20th century cases the naacp stood up and said we're going to support black people who have used firearms in self-defense. but, says wilkens, by, you know, the 1960s, 1970s we are not going to be in the lynching business, we're not going to be in the business of political violence. and this is the place where that distinction that runs through the book really becomes crucial. because in the next turn of the black tradition of arms it's the efforts of black radicals to conflate those two things that i think and that i argue in the book pushes the black establishment away from t

wilkens removed robert williams from his post as president of the monroe county north carolina naacp. williams appeals that removal to the national board of the naacp. the annual meeting there is this vote. ultimately the removal is upheld, but in the process there is justice why engagement from across the community, across the country, branches of the naacp riding in to a lot of statements in the crisis magazine. just this significant engagement of this question of whether robert williams stepped over the line into advocacy of political violence. a lot of people disagreed. martin luther king crystallizes the debate but basically saying, all right. you have three things to think about. one possibility in terms of the nonviolent theme of the movement is pure pessimist. king says it's a religious commitment that very few people ever going to achieve. it requires extraordinary discipline. later folks would say that king never urged others to -- or never condemn people for not achieving that level, that sense of nonviolence. and he says and then there is self-defense. even involving arms.

then wilkens kind of does agree. i do think there are people who have forgotten. rosa parks is certainly misremembered. i don't know what her position on capitalism is but i do know that she was not, when asked about her position, king, in relation to malcolm, i could never get to the -- i was always much more of the lever in malcolm's strategies than king's. she could never devote herself to the notion of nonviolence really. >> i don't know if there are any other figures who are critical of capitalism who have been depoliticized. >> muhammad ali would be a good example. >> gloria richardson. one of the things we haven't mentioned tonight is sort of both women participated and organized for the march and were in many ways shunted aside and one of the people who was on the dais that date was gloria richardson who was waging a struggle in cambridge, md. and it was a struggle that was very much linking racial injustice with economic justice. richardson, a like the other women that they did not get to speak. there's an amazing interview democracy now did with gloria r

do it, i'm going to do it, and i'll take up your time, and then wilkens keep of does agree. do think that -- i mean, there are people who have forgotten. rosa parks is certainly misremembered. yob -- i don't know what her -- when asked about her position in relation to the -- i was always much more a believer in malcolm's strategy than king's, or at least she could not -- she was never -- she could never quite devote herself of nonviolence, really. >> yeah, i don't know if there are any other figures critical of capitalism and depoliticize >> ali would be a good example. malcolm x. >> gloria richardson. one things not mentioned yet tonight is sort of how much sort of both women participated and organized the mar. and were in many ways shunted aside, and one of the people who was on the dice that day was gloria richardson who was waging the struggle in maryland, a struggle very much linking racial injustice on the eastern shore of maryland with economic justice. richardson, like the other women on the die yays that day did not get to speak. there's a tremendous interview with

our great team that we've got at the commission, john wilkens is our new managing director. and he came from that ken si and working with julie veep who's the head of our wire line bureau, they have applied business-like cash flow management concepts to the e-rate fund. that is going to enable us to double amount of money that's going for broadband installation this year and be able to address this challenge immediately by saying we're going to take the steps to make sure that 31st century -- 21st century students get 21st century education. and that is high on the list of priorities that we have at the commission. and probably, you know, i agree totally with you in everything that you said about the importance of the evolving internet and what's our role and this sort of stuff. but if you really stop and think about it, the great challenge that we have is how do you use the internet to make sure that our most important assets, our kids, get the best with possible education. and the great thing about being at the fcc is that we sit in the middle of it, and we think we've got