let's rejoin william f. buckley. >> let me ask you this since a lot of people are extremely cynical about the whole notion of states' rights. it's been widely contended. for instance most recently by senator tidings of maryland that american conservatives like to talk about states' rights because there is still a certain glamour to the argument and a scientific exactitude for the notion of plural icism and federalism. but the states haven't historically acted in such a way to provide the essential services of the people. the argument is if one were to remit the to the states all of the money that's now going to the federal government on social welfare, the chances are states would dissipate, create more t hot dog stands and more public squalor in the face of mr. gal bury. isn't it true they have gone up far more than the increase in the gnp, the increase in the economy and that this itself suggests that certain states were stimulated into duty by the activity of the federal government. how do you handle a question o

let's rejoin william f. buckleyet me ask you this, since a lot of people routinely cynical about the whole notion of state's rights, it has been very widely contended for instance most recently by senator tidings of maryland that americans like to talk about states rights because there is still a certain glamor to the argument and a certain scientific exact tude of the whole notion of pluralism and federalism and so on. but in fact the states haven't historically acted in such a way as to provide the essential services of the people. his argument and that of a great many others is if one were to remitt to the state all of the money going to the federal government the chances are the states simply dissipate and create more hot dog stands and more public squall lar in the face of this. isn't it true the state's revenues have risen since the second world war far in excess of the increase in the gnt, an increase in the economy, and that this itself suggests certain states stimulated into doing their duty by the activity

i mean, there's the famous quote from william f. buckley who said conservatives are the people who stand to thwart people yelling stop, you know? and that's not as appealing. i mentioned earlier i worked for senator bob dole when i was here, and he was called senator gridlock. and he didn't really hind that. when asked about that, he would say, well, there are a lot of bad ideas in washington, and somebody needs to stop them. and so that was his idea of conservativism. he had a good line, some college gave him an honorary doctorate degree, and he said, well, at least they have to call me dr. gridlock now. but this is one of the problems, i think, of conservativism, is when you hear a problem, progressives are quick to design a government solution for the problem. we feel your pain, and we're going to design something that will fix your pain whereas conservatives are in a more defensive posture, and they're saying, no, we don't want to grow the federal government. but the next part of the conservative message doesn't get heard. we believe in

russell kirk, a great conservative political philosopher, william f. buckley in the 1950s, national review magazine was launched during the 50s and so the conventional wisdom is that is where you find the beginning of modern american conservatism and then amity shlaes this year wrote i think a very interesting book on calvin coolidge that proposes we ought to go further into the 1920s because calvin coolidge was the beginning of modern american conservatism that i saw her week ago when i said the overly launched a coolidge's cool movement. i said that probably wasn't easy to do because you see the cover of the book in the top hat. he's not really a 21st century kind of guy but gordon and die in his book think the place to go is actually to the 1930s because in our view modern american conservatism is essentially a response to the new deal of the 1930s to franklin roosevelt. and to us, the conservative response in the 1930s was the beginning of modern conservatism. that response initially actually came from former president herbert hoover. lots of people debate

letters include correspondences with the kennedy family, lyndon johnson, henry kissinger and william f. buckley. this is about an hour. [applause] >> well, welcome, and thank you for that nice welcoming applause. and i want to thank you all for joining us for what i know is going to be a very special evening. as many of you know this year, vanderbilt welcomed john meacham with, i would say, wide arms and a very warm embrace as a distinguished visiting professor. [applause] and i think john has done well, and i hope we can take the visiting off pretty soon. [laughter] i would say that our political science students are just thrilled to have such a unique opportunity to learn from this accomplished historical scholar and celebrated to have. john's most recent book, "thomas jefferson: the art of power," rose to the coveted number one spot on "the new york times" bestseller list and was selected as one of the best books of the year by the times book review and the be washington post. and "the washington post." his best selling biography of andrew jackson, "american lion," earned him a pulitzer priz

letters from the roosevelt, truman, adelaide stevenson, humphrey, a candidate, kissinger, a william f. buckley, jr., the clinton, al gore gorby doll, jacqueline kennedy and naturally with his interest of american history sammy davis, jr., a and mick jagger. [laughter] to a detractor to accused arthur of being a communist sympathizer he said your first letter was a product of misunderstanding for you to really provide if not i can only send you to the nearest psychiatrist. but i should note arthur had a keen appreciation for andrew jackson and jack daniel's. as is also appreciated arthur did not believe white wine was done to the day given the difficulties of the afternoon. he is the author of terror across and teeeighteen that co-editor of his father's struggle. his films won two emmys serving as the world director of the policy is to share am publisher of the journal of a speech writer and foreign policy adviser for'' well also the author of factive creation that received the harry s. truman book award. our friend tom brokaw will play a key role in this discussion in the future of liberalism.

to people like russell kirk and barry goldwater and william f. buckley to say you know if that middle class gets too big too fast it's going to destabilize the country and a destabilized country is not a good thing i mean this is just a basic turn. the conservative world view it's not good or bad it's just you know william buckley said a conservative is a man of stands athwart the arc of history of this hand shouting stop and it's true it's true so so you had the liberals who were seeing all this change in the kind of thomas jefferson thomas mayne fashion and saw thought as wonderful thing and conservatives who are saying wait a minute if the middle class is too big this could be dangerous this is in the fifty's one hundred fifty one fifty two russell kirk wrote a book called the conservative mind that lays this all out predicts this fast forward to the seventy's and now it's actually happening women are demanding rights in the workplace you know the whole bra burning movement ms magazine was published in seventy one african-americans are saying hey what

to people like russell kirk and barry goldwater and william f. buckley to say you know if that middle class gets too big too fast it's going to destabilize the country and a destabilized country is not a good thing i mean this is just a basic tenet of the conservative worldview it's not good or bad it's just you know way in buckley said a conservative is a man of stands athwart but the arc of history of this hand showed in stop and it's true it's true so so you had the liberals who were seeing all this change in the kind of thomas jefferson thomas paine fashion and saw thought as a wonderful thing and conservatives who were saying wait a minute if the middle class is too big this could be dangerous this is in the fifty's fifty one fifty two russell kirk wrote a book called the conservative mind that lays this all out predicts this fast forward to the seventy's and now it's actually happening women are demanding rights in the workplace you know the whole bra burning movement ms magazine was published in seventy one african-americans are saying hey what ab

to people like russell kirk and barry goldwater and william f. buckley to so. you know if that middle class gets too big too fast it's going to destabilize the country and destabilize countries not a good thing i mean this is just a basic tenet of the conservative worldview it's not good or bad it's just you know what i'm buckley said the conservative is a man of stands athwart the arc of history of this hand shouting stop and it's true it's true so so you had the liberals who were seeing all this change in the kind of thomas jefferson thomas paine fashion and saw thought as wonderful thing and conservatives who are saying wait a minute if the middle class is too big this could be dangerous this is in the fifty's one hundred fifty one fifty two russell kirk wrote a book called the conservative mind that lays this all out predicts this fast forward to the seventy's and now it's actually happening women are demanding rights in the workplace you know the whole bra burning movement ms magazine was published in seventy one african-americans are saying hey what about

certain conservatives at the time, william f. buckley was a big fan of the kennedy tax cut. of the conservatives didn't get it. they thought is going to increase the debt and deficit spending also, for being someone who's pushing for civil rights. so it seems that these people like certain parts of them. data like other parts of them. they like the economic policy, thought he was weekly because he didn't bomb cuba. it seems to me there's a whole lot of balls up in the air here. >> well, the liberals -- >> conservative strikes me like you're picking and choosing just certain things. >> again, i think the best argument for that is not -- it's not my words, but kennedy's words, in the words of the people who served with him. and again, not just from the early '50s, but from after kennedy died. you know, i quote some of them in the introduction to the book where, where ted sorenson, kennedy was a fiscal conservative. .. >> for the members of that group in the senate or most of them. what he disliked, and here again we have often talked about it, was the sort of posturing, attitu

1951-52, russell kirk wrote "the conservative mind," the bible that animated goldwater and william f. buckley, and the conservative mind back in the early 50s, russell kirk, going all the way back to sir edman bushing, and they were a brit who was a conservative who ultimately supported the american revolution, but the father of conservative movements abroad. he was the man who says it does me no harm -- see, he thought only a certain class should be allowed to vote, for example, does me no harm if a man is allowed to engauge in a provings, and hair hairdresser,t it -- society considers violation, such a man and govern to vote, so, anyhow, russell kirk with chapters about the wonders of sir edmond burke. it the class was wealthy, they get uppity. that was not ad -- a good thing for america. this was a value for americans, for many americans, have a stable seat, but if it's too wealth, society gets unstable. at the time when louis wrote a memo, it was unstable. you have the birth control legal for 11 years at that point. you had the women's movement going full tilt, you had african-americans w

william f. buckley who at the beginning of the iraq war supported it.a culpa interview said we thought we were going to remake an entire region hand the ended up not being realistic at all, therefore, it ended up not being conservative at all. we republicans have not acted in the tradition have we over the past 12, 13 years? >> well, it's certainly been a members. i think the failures republicans confronted come a lot of time when they fail to act as conservatives. when they fail to take account of the fact that you can't president-elect every event weight. you have to be careful in the steps you make and think about how they act the world as it is. >> how do you, president reagan before he was president reagan even before he was governor loved the line from payne, we have in our power to gen the world over again. >> the least conservative thing by anyone. he used it all the time. >> but it's not actually true. he didn't actually govern that way. >> when iraqen used that lean, he used it to call the american people to do big things again. he didn't use

how do we get from the late 1980s, early 1980s, we have william f. buckleyn 1990 saying this will be a day of infamy, maybe. how do we get from there to here? what's happened? >> part of what's happened is mandela, himself, was so effective in demonstrating he was a leader of peace and reconciliation. so the fact that people have stereotyped him into a particular type of violent, dangerous person, thanks, greatly to the propaganda of the apartheid regime, by the way, he was able to transform himself by his very acts. one of the quotes he gave one of my favorite is the courageous do not fear forgiveness for the sake of pales. >> that really embodied his leadership. >> sean, take us back. i think for people who didn't live through and don't remember the political debate we outlined there, that took place in this country in sort of the reagan years ago how did that idea of nelson mandela is this, maybe he deserves to be in jail? maybe apartheid is more complicated than we think it is? maybe this isn't our fight? how prevalent was that. how did that view take ho

my hero was william f buckley junior at yale, and he was a theicipant in the -- of law, even though helawyer. my reasoning from your person on all his viewst are in the classroom. all his views are in the classroom, and it is not a matter of guilt or innocence -- it is a matter of retrospect in the classroom because the students are just getting their grades. but if you put them out in guantanamo bay, like the , that is what they called emotional suicide. he should understand this. i do not know if he has been in the military, i do not know if he has been a war, but the percussion is like classical music. when you hear the percussions of music as opposed to war, it is a matter of discontentment in the whole world. got: rich, i will let you there. you are a professor at the american university. these issues one up in your classroom? guest: and constitutional law, obviously, there are hard questions about the proper relationship between executive ranch in the course during wartime. there are hard questions about what the federal courts are supposed to do in these cases. one of the more f