and one of the reasons that it got so big so fast was that william henry seward, who was then best known as the governor of recent governor of new york, defended freeman pro bono. and, of course, we know that 20 years later, after this, william henry seward would become the secretary of state to abraham lincoln and he would broker the sale of alaska. if you've ever heard of seward's folly. that's him. that was in the future, however. the prosecutor was john van buren, who was the son of the recent president. martin van buren. so this was a clash of the titans, and it got very big, very fast. and the there were daily transcripts of the trial, went out daily on telegraph, and they got published far and wide. the trial attracted the commentary of walt whitman, james mccune smith, horace greeley, a lot of very well-known people commented on it. now, freeman was entirely clear about why he killed he wanted back pay, and if he couldn't have it, he would have payback. but no one, the prosecution or the defense, wanted to hear freeman's challenge to the auburn system, because the auburn system w

here we jump forward to william henry seward. 1776 to right up to the civil war. william henry seward, of course, famous statesmen. a man who wanted to be president perhaps as much as only one or two other dudes in the whole country's history. maybe only second to henry clay and how that he wanted to be president. william henry seward said this. to obtain an empire is easy and common. so lots of empires in the world. but he's had to govern it well is difficult and rare indeed. and he is talking in a period much later than we have been talking about by which point the united states has acquired essentially everything, including the purchase that will become part of the modern continental u.s. so seward is pointing to the same problem that adam smith alluded to. this is not an easy task to undertake. you have to find a way to control this territory and do it in a way that is fair and equitable. we talked about that tension last time that washington and jefferson ran into. people that go to the frontier do not want a lot of intervention in their lives, especially from

i said to william henry seward, so is kind of the period we're going to cover, the 1776 to right up to the civil war william henry seward, of course, famous, a man who wanted to be president, perhaps as much as only one or two other dudes in the whole country history, maybe only second to henry clay and how bad he wanted to president william henry seward. this in a speech to congress in 1856 to obtain an empire is and common so of empires in the world. but he said to govern it well is difficult rare indeed. and he's talking in a period right much than what we've been talking about by which the united states has acquired essentially everything, including the gadsden purchase, that will become part of the modern u.s. and so seward is pointing to the same problem that. adam smith alluded to this not an easy task to undertake. you have to find a way to control this territory and. you have to do it in a way that's fair and we talked about that tension last right. the washington and jefferson run into people who go to the frontier do not want a of intervention in their lives especially from

he common on case because he was furious at william henry seward. james mccune smith very clearly recognized the racism in william henry stewart defense of freeman and he was absolutely furious at him for that. >> part of the excellence of this book, i'll say again, is a way in which you navigate the complicated entanglements of what it is to think about race and racial legacy and american culture. i said this to you, if one is building a classic trying to study that complexity, and if morrison's beloved is in there, baldwins fire, next time, all these books that ask any reader to figure out how do you witness and participate and find your place in the story, i think we could say that your book would be there. so i just want to congratulate you and thank you. thank you for sharing it with us. us. what a phenomenal work. >> thank you so much. that means the world to me. i am very touched that you would say that.ll thank you so much. and thank you all for being a part of this conversation. [applause] >> thank you, robin bernstein, kevin quashie. what h

william henry stewart. so, this is the time we will cover, 1776 to the civil war. and william henry seward, of course, a famous statesman, a man who wanted to be president as much as maybe one or two other dudes in the country's history, maybe only second to henry clay in how bad he wanted to be president. william henry seward said this in a speech to congress in 1856. "to obtain an empire is easy and common," so, lots of empires in the world. but, he said, "to govern it well is difficult and rare, indeed." and he is talking about a period that is much later than what we have been talking about, by which point, the united states has acquired essentially everything, including the gadsden purchase, that will become a part of the modern, continental u.s. so, seward is pointing to the same problem that adam smith alluded to. this is not an easy task to undertake. you have to find a way to control this territory, and to have to do it in a way that is fair and equitable. we talked about that tension last time, right? that washington and jefferson run into people who go to the frontier don't want

seward was lincoln's presidential rival and then ally william henry seward complains constantly that wide awakes and upstate new york just show up outside his house the middle of the night with torches, with oompah. they show up at susan anthony's house. they just show up wherever and serenade and march around and doing it out of enthusiasm. they're fired 18 year olds, and that's how they show how excited they are. it's really hard for the republican establishment in general to to navigate this flood that they have they have hundreds of thousands of supporters who are really crossing lines, potentially of acceptable political engagement. so do they pull them back? do they keep them going? will these young people scare off moderates who they need to win the election? and lincoln is lincoln particularly cagey? he he can't really campaign. he's presidential nominee. you don't really campaign unless you stephen douglass and you're going to break all the rules. so lincoln is in springfield he's getting letters from wide awake, telling him he's an honorary awake. he's a member of their clu

seward was lincoln's presidential rival and then ally william henry seward complains constantly that wide awakes and upstate new york just show up outside his house the middle of the night with torches, with oompah. they show up at susan anthony's house. they just show up wherever and serenade and march around and doing it out of enthusiasm. they're fired 18 year olds, and that's how they show how excited they are. it's really hard for the republican establishment in general to to navigate this flood that they have they have hundreds of thousands of supporters who are really crossing lines, potentially of acceptable political engagement. so do they pull them back? do they keep them going? will these young people scare off moderates who they need to win the election? and lincoln is lincoln particularly cagey? he he can't really campaign. he's presidential nominee. you don't really campaign unless you stephen douglass and you're going to break all the rules. so lincoln is in springfield he's getting letters from wide awake, telling him he's an honorary awake. he's a member of their clu