nelson's second in command, william hoover, also told the committee staff he did not know of the gun walking tactics in fast and furious. he said it was his firm belief, that's a quote "firm belief" that the strategic and tactical decisions in this decision" were born and raised in fee mphoenix. did the head of atf or his deputy ever warn you that gun walking was occurring? >> no, i never got that from either mr. nelson or from mr. hoover. >> i want to, i want to go back over this chart again because it's really important for members to have an understanding here. you've got, you've got the u.s. attorney in arizona, the atf, i think with the atf, mr. hoover, mr. nelson, atf didn't report anything to the deputy attorney general, the u.s. attorney and for the district of arizona didn't put any information through to the deputy attorney general. so what i want to know is, all of this talk about resignation, what we're really devaluing the whole concept of asking a top level official to resign, when you haven't reached the level of proof that something was right on his desk. no one's pro

. >> director william hoover, an experienced atf officer, became concerned in 2010 about the number of weapons involved in fast and furious. he told us he did not know about gun walking, but he ordered an exit strategy based on his overall concerns. he told a phoenix office to end this operation within 90 days and bring indictments. but they didn't do it. they did not like atf headquarters running their cases, and they continued for months to encourage gun deal ors to -- dealers to sell to straw purchasers without arrest. during his interview mr. hoover also told us he never told anyone at the department of justice about his general concerns with the operation or his order for an exit strategy. in our interviews with justice department officials confirm that. so i have two questions. e understand that -- i understand that field agents don't like bureaucrats in washington looking over their shoulder. but how can a field office effectively ignore the directors of atf headquarters in this way and, second, what specific reforms are now in place or should we consider to insure better coordi

. >> and the atf director william hoover became concerned in 2010 about the number weapons involved in fast and furious. he told us he did not know about gun walking, but he ordered an exit strategy based on his overall concerns. he told a phoenix office to end its operation within 90 days and bring indictments. but they did not do it. but did not like atf headquarters won their cases and they continued for months to encourage gun dealers to sell to straw persons without arrests. mr. ruder also told us that he never told anyone at the department of justice about his general concerns with the operation or his order for an exit strategy. in our interviews with justice department officials, would confirm that. i understand that field agents do not like bureaucrats in washington looking over their shoulder. but how can a field office effectively ignored the directives of atf headquarters in this way, and what specific reforms are now in place, or should reconsider, to ensure federal coordination and oversight? >> there is a tension between the field and headquarters. depending on where i s

. >> and the atf director william hoover became concerned in 2010 about the number weapons involved inast and furious. he told us he did not know about gun walking, but he ordered an exit strategy based on his overall concerns. he told a phoenix office to end its operation within 90 days and bring indictments. but they did not do it. but did not like atf headquarters won their cases and they continued for months to encourage gun dealers to sell to straw persons without arrests. mr. ruder also told us that he never told anyone at the department of justice about his general concerns with the operation or his order for an exit strategy. in our interviews with justice department officials, would confirm that. i understand that field agents do not like bureaucrats in washington looking over their shoulder. but how can a field office effectively ignored the directives of atf headquarters in this way, and what specific reforms are now in place, or should reconsider, to ensure federal coordination and oversight? >> there is a tension between the field and headquarters. depending on where i sit