and submits it to william shawn.and then sean persuades howard roth to do something that was very balls the. an unparalleled in its ambition. and that is to make it an entire issue of the new yorker. >> guest: that was what one former new york editors, harold ross are you crazy? it's a year later they've just gotten back to the post war, there's a sense of normalcy coming back to the magazine, cartoon, subic they want to read the talks of the tampered part of the continuity of their lives to have that. >> they knew they had to disrupt that continuity. >> guest: that is the question. again it presents them with a really essential question. is it continuous wartime purpose of fearless reporting or does it revert entirely to something. two you tell something i would say is unforgettable. it's how ross finally persuaded himself to do it robert shaw who is admired and trusted with trusting him to do. not to think about the future of the magazine. i think about that magazines past. very dna. >> guest: he went back and look

. >> he produces this and then submits it to william shawn and then sean persuades howard ross to bed unparalleled business ambition and that's to make it an entire issue of the new yorker. >> which was what one former new yorker called unprecedented splurge. harold ross was like are you crazy? a year later they had just gotten back to postwar footing, a sense of normalcy coming back into magazine. >> the students that wanted to read the talk of the town, part of the continuity of their lives to have that. >> that's the question, it presents them with a really essential question, what is the purpose of this magazine? does it continue of wartime purpose of fearless reporting or river entirely to something quick to tell us something i thought was unforgettable which is that the way howard ross finally persuaded himself to do what william shawn and he admired and trusted, was not to think about the future of the magazine but to think about the magazines past and it's very dna. >> he went back and looked at his original statement he had published 1925 and also the perspective that he had

who was william shawn? >> guest: william shawn became the editor of the new yorker in 1953 right after mr. roy's died. he was editor for about 35 or -- 35 years up until three or four years ago. he was a menace rectangular talent and very idiosyncratic personal manners. he was terrifyingly shy and a very reclusive. nervously well organized and when i sent a manuscript of a book in which i simply recount what i done drink week of that year and he accepted it, the publication, i couldn't believe it because i'm a conservative and that new yorker is pretty liberal. >> host: what year is this? >> guest: 1970. so then i sent him a second book in the excepted. that a third book and accepted. that a fourth book the fifth book. so that i had this extraordinary hospitality by this extraordinary man. now, about once a year he assigned himself the job of editing line by line a book that had been accepted by the new yorker and it fell on his personal direction for the first of these books which meant having a lunch with

william shawn, this is a column of january the 18th of 1993. william: published in the national review. host: who was he. william: william shawn became the editor of the new yorker in 1953. after ms. ross died. it was the editor for about 35 years up until three or four years ago. the man was spectacular columnist. he was terrifyingly shy. very elusive. he was well organized and when i sent him a manuscript of a book in which mike had recounted during the week of that year and he accepted it. the publication. i cannot believe it. because i'm a conservative. this was in 1970. so that i had to send them a second book and he accepted it. and then the third book, and he accepted it . by the physical, i had this extraordinarily hospitality by this man. and about once a year, he would find himself the job of editing line by line to book that had been accepted by the new yorker. this helped me that it would fall under his personal direction. so i would have lunch with him. and having lunch with william shawn was the next thing to a declaration. because

william shawn is quote-unquote the hunch meant what he would send one of this corresponds into the field and he didn't know what the scoop is going to be. he just knew there would be one. >> he trusted his writers. he believed in his writers here so why john hersey? hersey was actually not read, born and bred as a new yorker. he came from -- what made hersey, what made shawn trust that hersey could get this story? >> hersey couldn't have been less of a new yorker. he's writing for time magazine. they hated each other. hersey reported for the times in 1939, and they were grooming him to be heir apparent to time inc. >> not to enroll, it's very timing by sq to say now, he was of that type turkey was not a fat new york jew. he wasn't elegant figure. >> and he was also, you know, from yale school. and also when you read this, the time and the way, the dispatches hersey wrote, they were a far cry from what he was writing for the new yorker later on. .. and he says thanks but no thanks and he's the heir apparent to this burgeoning media empire. he's a freelancer in 1945 but in 1944 he had mana

in san francisco, alex nieto, mario woods, jessica williams, perez lopez, and shawn michael rosa are just a few people who have died at the hands of law enforcement more recently. most recently, jacob blake was shot in the back seven times while going to his car in front of his three children in ken owe shaken -- kenosha, wisconsin. this violence against black and brown communities, condoned by law enforcement and our national leaders needs to end. sb 731, police decertification, also known as the kenneth ross, jr. police decertification act of 2020, introduced by state senator steven bradford of los angeles will create a statewide process to automatically revoke the certification of a peace officer following a conviction of misconduct such as excessive force, sexual misconduct, and dishonesty. it will also correct the misinterpretation of an impediment to the tom bains civil rights act intended to perform civil immunity. it makes it nearly impossible for families to successfully sue police officers for civil damages in police abuse cases in federal court for police officers in calif

in san francisco, alex nieto, mario woods, jessica williams, perez lopez, and shawn michael rosa are just a few people who have died at the hands of law enforcement more recently. most recently, jacob blake was shot in the back seven times while going to his car in front of his three children in ken owe shaken -- kenosha, wisconsin. this violence against black and brown communities, condoned by law enforcement and our national leaders needs to end. sb 731, police decertification, also known as the kenneth ross, jr. police decertification act of 2020, introduced by state senator steven bradford of los angeles will create a statewide process to automatically revoke the certification of a peace officer following a conviction of misconduct such as excessive force, sexual misconduct, and dishonesty. it will also correct the misinterpretation of an impediment to the tom bains civil rights act intended to perform civil immunity. it makes it nearly impossible for families to successfully sue police officers for civil damages in police abuse cases in federal court for police officers in calif

in san francisco, alex nieto, mario woods, jessica williams, perez lopez, and shawn michael rosa are just a few people who have died at the hands of law enforcement more recently. most recently, jacob blake was shot in the back seven times while going to his car in front of his three children in ken owe shaken -- kenosha, wisconsin. this violence against black and brown communities, condoned by law enforcement and our national leaders needs to end. sb 731, police decertification, also known as the kenneth ross, jr. police decertification act of 2020, introduced by state senator steven bradford of los angeles will create a statewide process to automatically revoke the certification of a peace officer following a conviction of misconduct such as excessive force, sexual misconduct, and dishonesty. it will also correct the misinterpretation of an impediment to the tom bains civil rights act intended to perform civil immunity. it makes it nearly impossible for families to successfully sue police officers for civil damages in police abuse cases in federal court for police officers in calif