absolutely for free. >> there's a story about a fella named willie horton. >> willie horton. >> convicted murderer. >> first degree -- >> convicted murderer -- >> killer. chris: atwater denying any role to less had i stall. >> you think the willie horton commercial, though, gives hints of racial politics? >> -- chris: you don't have a willie -- >> you don't have a willie horton commercial on the air? >> no. >> you don't have an ad on the air about the crime issue? >> no. chris: lee atwater died of brain cancer in 1991 and apologized for his tactics before his death including a direct apology to michael dukakis for what lee himself called his naked cruelty. and when we come back, are the evangelicals who want barack obama out of the white house really going to worry about whether mitt romney is a mormon? and scoops and predictions right from the notebooks of these top reporters. be right back. chris: welcome back. in south carolina, 60% of republicans who voted in the last presidential primary back in 2008 were evangelicals. well, that may be mitt romney's hidden hurdle down there next wee

because he thought the guy had you know so redeemed himself and he clearly had an image of the willie horton case not actually was even a pardon or a commutation that was just pocket said giving him a furlough to get a camera or what what the reason if you needed a furlough was that actually the beatles went out for a weekend and then went on to commit a couple of the concert jaan you know beyond those two days i mean i don't know any case where somebody was pardons you know for a violent crime that went on to commit more violent crimes once they were out i mean i'm sure it's happened but it certainly doesn't happen very often just wondering you know have there's a way to try to break through it somehow because obviously it's hard how do you convince people not to have certain fear is but shouldn't you also try to put the statistics out there some people know i think it's good to put out you know put out that we publicize them or the d.n.a. exonerations that we've seen publicized you know a lot of these cases of people who've been wrongfully convicted and groups like families against mandato

start roaming the streets and they have a very emotional reaction to it and nobody wants another willie horton so why would why did barbour do this. it's a good question i mean i don't know i think you know in his press release it mentioned a lot about you know the cost of keeping some of these people and a lot of them you know they they have served their sentences and they were out so you know he was trying it claimed us trying to give them another start but it is just it's it's really just kind of strange i mean bar harbor refused to earlier in his first term he refused to pardon this. civil rights activists was trying to basically was trying to integrate and were city of southern mississippi and was basically framed for a crime so that you would have a criminal record so that the school could turn him down for admissions that he couldn't integrated but refused to give this guy a posthumous pardon just sort of out of principle of you know he just doesn't like to give out pardons. so it's you know it's. new the unfortunate thing i think the unfortunate far out from this is that it's going to

one was willie horton, who murdered a boy in a robbery, stabbing him 19 times. >> well, that was a prettyn't it, mike isikoff? and that's why one of the producers is the guy who's bringing us this set of adds for romney. >> right, there is something coming full circle here. but, look, the willie horton ads is one of those iconic moments in american politics that everybody remembers because it was so effective. and i think that this, you know, the newt gingrich ads, the attack ads, run just over the last month, may rank right up there. showing, vindicating the power of negative ads. i want to just pick up on something you were talking about before with john, about, you know, accountability for these things. the super pacs are supposed to be independent, they don't coordinate, but, look, the restore our future is founded by three former romney political aides. one of the chief fund-raisers for the romney presidential campaign leaves the campaign and then goes to work for restore our future. romney himself speaks at fund-raisers over the summer, for restore our future. so that tells you a lo

when when mike dukakis was running against the first president bush and the big issue there was willie horton you know this person who had been let out on furlough and end up telling someone a horrible story but what did they have to do with the presidential race you know see you get these distractions that become front and center and the politicians you know in this case president bush became president bush certainly had every reason the world to put it there and the media who should have been calling him on this saying what does this have to do with your presidency you know willie horton sin jail that doesn't matter now they just let this go they enjoy the spectacle are evil so let's get the and into a few specifics because what we do still hear a lot of is this idea that austerity is going to have to happen right forget about what's going on in europe that it might not be working over there that still the general consensus is that we need to cut spending and so mitt romney had an interesting answer to this and he basically turned it over to the states i want to take a listen. well what we

. >> let me bring up the name of willie horton because he was a significant factor in the 1988 election. it came up in the democratic primary with michael dukakis as he was being challenged in that primary. what we have been hearing from the romney and the gingrich campaigns -- do you have any reservations about what will be brought up in the fall. >> i would rather our candidates not attack each other. what pains me the most about these attacks that have gone both ways are attacks on the free market system, how someone are as their income and how they are successful. president obama and his reelection committee will use that against us. he will have dug it up and come up with some kind of spin on it. most importantly, we need to make a compelling case for the free market. we need to go out and talk to people who are middle-class and below middle-class about how jobs at the free enterprise system will lead to them and their children out of their station in life. we know that the obama demonstration delays in government programs. they get a check every month or every week. they are there

one was willie horton who murdered a boy in a robbery, stabbing him 19 times. >> this year restore ourac that has been bombarding the airwaves in iowa. all the presidential candidates have them, but what they do have in common, thanks to that supreme court ruling which you were discussing before, they can take unlimited donations from wealthy donors and corporations, and all that is resulting in millions for attack ads that are changing the course of this presidential campaign. >> nbc's michael isikoff. thank you for that. i want to get reaction to that now from the gingrich campaign. rick tyler was an early supporter of newt gingrich and served as his campaign spokesman until he left the campaign with a lot of other staffers in june. rick has returned to the fold, and now he's part of the winning our future super pac that is running ads in support of mr. gingrich. mr. tyler, thanks very much for joining us tonight. we're happy to have you. >> hey, rachel, glad to be here. >> do you agree with the basic thesis that when people can donate money and not have their name attached to that m

very difficult for him so this could be sort of like i mean it was bill clinton who brought up willie horton in the primary against a caucus and then it kind of went away and nobody really noticed except for forget the guy's name but the you know the guy who ran the campaign against a caucus and he been on behalf of bush this could this is going to pop back up again and again and i don't even know if it's ever going to even really go away i mean the thing is that this ties in so much into a prevailing narrative that mitt romney just happens to be very poorly suited rich which is which is that there's incredible income disparity there one of the reasons why there's incredible income disparities because of our tax code and we also have a. a portion of our capitalism in this country preys on the middle class and we have over financial eyes ation of of our economy which crashed the economy in two thousand and eight and all this plays into it and so i think is going to be a problem for rebecca to sam's point how prevalent is this kind of tax evasion actually and partly it's very prevalent and wha

remember willie horton? michael dukakis does. ask john kerry if he remembers those swiftboat ads. >> john kerry cannot be trusted. >> reporter: it's the sheer volume of money that's different. >> why is newt gingrich brutally attacking mitt romney? >> reporter: radio stations like w.o.r.d. are raking it in making randy cable, the general manager of this and four other south carolina radio stations, a happy man. >> the super pacs are outspending the candidates at a rate of 2-1. i expect that to go even further by the time election day comes here. >> reporter: which means the price goes up? >> price goes up and, quite frankly, the ones that are buying the most will have the biggest impact. >> reporter: linda kaplan-thaler is the ceo of an advertising agency in new york. wendy's and aflac are a couple of her clients. why it is, we wondered, that businesses, products, don't tear each other down in their ads as viciously as politicians do? >> we have to go through the ftc, through the networks, you have to prove a claim. it is more di

but we've also seen them haunt the nominee, the willy horton iron against michael due caulk kiss was raised by al gore's campaign against michael dukakis and then came back to do damage in the general election campaign. are republicans starting to get the feeling that actually this process is doing more damage than good? >> i think, lawrence, that there's no question that it can cut both ways. the problem for romney is that as michael is indicating, the image that is forming of him -- and some of it is being brought on by newt gingrich and some of his other rivals and some of it has been conflicted. the guy with the top hat on who is making or not paying taxes at the rate that average americans are paying taxes, who regards $375,000 a year in speaking fees as not very much money, those having nothing to do with being prosecuted by his rivals, it's problems that he's bringing on himself. and i think it doesn't do mitt romney any good to have months of this litigated out and give the obama campaign a lot of things that he himself can be said. not just things that newt gingrich has said

about willie horton. the chair of vanderbilt university, author.you why you shouldn't vote against them. but the negative ads do provide that information. it's important to voters. >> steve: there have been a lot of negative ads. in particular with south carolina, the gloves have really come off. but in south carolina, professor, that is a place that historically there has been a lot of dirty politics. >> there has been. i mean, south carolina was the home of lee atwater, who actually was involved in the willie horton ad and he certainly was somebody who engaged in negativity. but don't forget that south carolina is a crucial primary. it's a little later in the season. new hampshire. and often the issue, especially on the republican side are emotional. it's no surprise there is a lot of attacks going on. >> peter: why is that a negative ad, doctor n terms of talking about the willie horton ad? there was a fellow that was committed to prison for a heinous murder and then furloughed then went tout commit an armed robbery and rape. isn't that part of

as i said, as one who has seen these kinds of campaigns before, from the welfare queen to the willy horton, to the angry white male vote that we heard in the '80s, to now extreme white branch that they're trying to ignite in this party. we don't need this. the only way we can come together is to be open and honest and deal with reality. and the reality is that we need to come together in this country and deal with our divisions. that's the only way we're going to heal them. joining me is emanuel cleaver, democrat from missouri, and chairman of the congressional black caucus. mr. chairman, thanks foe coming on the show tonight. >> good to be with us. >> let me, mr. chairman, show you three things that make me become very disturbed that they're playing to a branch of this party that you and i have seen in milder forms before, some of which i named before you came on. if you listen to the same rick santorum. in january of last year, say this about president obama, and abortion that he brought in race. >> the question is, this is what barack obama didn't want answered -- is that human life? a

the willie horton ad, that was bad. mike dukakis should have responded. the sainted ronald reagan did the same thing and pardoned people who went out and killed two california state patrolmen. we didn't fight back. sometimes we need to fight back more. >> it's why they pay you the big bucks to make those decisions in office. >> it's right. it's easier to sit here as a paid commentator. >> great to see you again. thank you. >>> they are back. occupy wall street protesters at new york's park celebrating the removal of police barricades this morning. 300 people were waiting to reoccupy the park where it all started. no tents or sleeping bags allowed. the decision came after a civil rights group complained they restricted public access to the park. >>> who is "your business" entrepreneur of the week? she took over morris litwin jewelers and offered more rings and pendants. she scaled down and became more web centric. it led to sparkling profits. watch "your business" on msnbc. i had enough of feeling embarrassed about my skin. [ designer ] enough of just cove

. >> president's politics, people forget, al gore brought up willie horton first time against michaelhe playbook used in a primary inflicting some damage can inflict more. how concerned are you about that? >> i'm not really that concerned, because i do think this election is going to be about choosing a path for america, and the path is going to be so important that the american people are going to vote on whether or not we follow this expansion of government, european model the president has us on or get back to what i call american exceptionalism giving the entrepreneur time to create prosperity for us. it's going to be huge, important for the country and most americans will vote on that choice. >> a nuance argument gingrich is trying to fight on bain and what the white house will say on bain, which is, there's sort of a line here and the argument that gingrich has made, could you have taken 60% gains rather than 100% gains, that sometimes bain went too far. do you see examples where they went too far? >> i don't know that much about bain, but if you look at numbers presented by mit

they can go to the democrats the way the attack on willie horton and letting him free was discover and introduced by al gore in the democratic primary fight and picked up by lee @water and used to destroy them. it can happen the same way. they have property rights now on what the republicans have created. >> that's a brilliant analogy. gingrich will destroy romney to what they need. the campaign is excited to see gingrich and a man who can't win 10% after getting the union leader endorsement didn't do anything for him. he has a vendetta now. you will see romney probably bloodied a bit. it helps everybody but romney. romney wants a crowded field, but doesn't want ring rich. >> rick santorum, a noble campaign and door-to-door. his family was involved. he didn't have the time to run that. it was wrong footed and getting involved. an exotic issue as contraception law. his point is working class families deserve a break. never could do it. can he restart his campaign down there? >> sheer imprisoned by the nice guy campaign. he is taking questions from all covers. that's why he was wrong foo

>> the part i like the best was the using the willie horton ad from 1998, the murderers being released only because i first released some shoplifters and to go get some arsonists, i had to get the arsonists back i had to release the murderers, but i'm going to get the murderers back by releasing -- >> you released the shoplifters as a gateway to releasing murderers? >> yeah. >> so is it not -- it is actually comical to see somebody like mitt romney say i haven't even seen the ads in the debate. i haven't seen the ads but let me tell you something, the part of that ad that i thought was really disturbing was -- >> in terms of what i understand was in it -- >> the bigger point is the super pac is a farce. >> disingenuous or that mitt romney is psychic. ever think about that? think about that. >> can we get back on -- >> we can get back to whatever you want to do. we are just sort of wandering around. >> back to open marriage. this is the question i think should have been asked of newt gingrich. i'll ask you. speaking purely hypothetically what is the best way to broach that subject with

. >> that willie horton ad that was so devastating to michael dukakis, a lot of people forget that hurtod's sakes. >> thanks for the spirited debate this morning. great to see you guys. >> let's go over to steve and eric. >> thank you very much, ali. >> still ahead, they went bankrupt after getting more than $500 million from us, the taxpayers. well, now, solyndra demanding bonuses for the people left here. >> plus it had oscar buzz did hollywood give former british prime minister margaret thatcher's character a fair shot? >> goed question. -- good question. [ male announcer ] in bli, even ragu users chose prego. prego?! but i've been buying ragu for years. [ thinking ] i wonder what other questionable choices i've made? [ '80s dance music plays ] [ sighs ] [ male announcer ] choose taste. choose prego. fresher less processed foods introducing freshpet recipes so fresh the only preservative we use is the fridge freshpet fresh food for fido ♪ ♪ ♪ one too many... [ male nouncer ] it time to reclaim your garage. the all-new passat. the 2012 motor trend car of the year. ♪ seek your way and

we're creating a willy horton moment in cook county. >> mike: that's a good way to put it and peopleow, want want us to follow it and thanks for tipping us off. >> thank you. >> mike: the frahm on the first day of the year. if your underage children drink at your home while are' not there, maybe you're out of town. should you be punished as parents? is that fair? we report, you decide. 2011 may have been a bad year for many people, but it's out with the negative and in with the positive on the first day. why optimism rules for 2012. a new survey, a new poll out today. ♪ >> happy new year. >> happy new year. >> ainsley: one of my resolutions, i've broken my resolution, we had cheese in the green room and i had a piece of cheese. i've got to stop eating cheese. you said something. >> mike: i love cheese. look at this face. no, there's a diet book out came out a couple of years ago and one of the chapters, if you eat cheese, you will neveren thin. of course, we're sponsored by the dairy association. apologize for that. >> ainsley: sometimes hearing something look that will prevent you.

they can go right to the democrats the way that the attack on willie horton, letting him free, was discoveredld happen the same way. they have property rights on what the republicans have created. >> that's a brilliant analogy. i think right now gingrich will destroy romney to the stent the democrats need. i think the obama campaign is probably excited to see gingrich stay in the race, the man that can't win 10% in new hampshire after getting the union leader endorsement and didn't do anything for him here. he's got a vendetta and i think you'll see romney probably blood didded a little bit beginning rich. romney wants a big crowded field but he doesn't want gingrich in it. >> let's talk about rick santorum. a noble campaign in iowa. door-to-door, his whole family was involved. here he didn't have the time and as the british say, he was wrong footed, as the british say. cont contraception law. can he restart his campaign down there? >> interestingly, chris, he's sort of imprisoned by the nice-guy campaign he's running. he tried to not be senator slash anymore and he's taking all questions whi