from willie horton to donald trump, party placed by the same -- your party plays by the same playbook. you lie and scare people. i have not said anywhere that i would do what you are suggesting. what i have said is i would do what i worked with governors to have more words than you, republican governors that have more courage than you, to bring their prison systems in line with states like new jersey where violent crime has been falling. gov. hogan: it doesn't matter how many times you say, it's not going to be true. donald trump don't have much to do with this. mr. jealous: that is the play book that you are playing by. you have been subjected to two months of your ads trying to scare them. gov. hogan: they are not my ads. mr. jealous: when it is my time, do i get to speak? moderator: next question, ryan eldredge will go first to mr. jealous. ryan: the question is, the opioid epidemic puts a strain on law enforcement, medical personnel, and our labor force, in addition to other things. we cannot deny that we need fixes. i want to know where the state can get the money to pay for trea

wants to appear to be soft on crime and i think that this goes back to you know things like the willie horton case in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight and we're still carrying that historical baggage into twenty eighteen and it's affecting the way that politicians feel that they can or should respond to things that are happening inside of prisons they don't want to touch it at all and they don't say they don't say anything about it again for the reasons that i stated not to mention that i think both political parties do you know get money from the prison industrial complex or from business of the profit from the prison industrial complex so there's also that kind of campaign financial aspect there as well of why you better not touch this because it actually affects a lot of people that support me politically and i just want to finish up you know at the end here and ask what what can folks do at home people who say you know what this is something i'm aware of i want to help out with what can people do at home to help our incarcerated citizens you know be treated more humane what's the be

>> i'm talking about -- i want to point out the part in the article that we pointed out that willie horton had in 1988. that's a fine example of taking something -- >> laura: and that was first used by democrats. >> if my memory serves me correct, that was a democrat move first. >> and that's also presidential campaign, that's not the media. chuck todd's point was, it was a call for other media to attack this network and particularly individuals like yourself, sean hannity and tucker carlson. when in fact, the wedge issues for them are issues that we all care about that liberals don't want to have the talked about, like immigration issues. like the direction of health care. there is financial issues, the economy, those kinds of things are wedge issues. they are all issues and deserve to be discussed. >> laura: there was an paragraph in the article, someone sent it to me and i didn't read the whole thing but i read most of it. in these prime time hosts are among the conservative people who make a really good living or something like that selling there -- we are opinion hosts. i don't preten

would have a sense of remove, he could say, i did not know about that plan, i did not know about willie horton, despite the fact that his campaign clearly knew the willie , aton ad was going to run racially charged advertisement the bush campaign ran in 1988. there was always someone around who could be the hitman. people like roger ailes and lee atwater played that role. brian: why did you believe george bush when he said he did not know about the ad? >> i have seen no documentation that he did and i have seen documentation from people like atwater is that we made a point of not discussing such things. this is not to alleviate bush of any complicity or guilt. .e was in charge he is responsible for what happens with his campaign. but it does give a sense of the tone he wants to set. he told his people, we're going to go for the win, we're going to do whatever it takes, we're going to play dirty, play the race card and emasculate michael dukakis. he wanted those things done, but he wanted somebody else to do it. brian: many stories have been written over the years that when ronald reagan was pr

but willy horton, we had -- others use this tool. now kind of come arranged like a chain saw. how is the gop now looking at this strategy and -- as it useful tool for motivating their base? it's not behaving in the same way that it used to. it's out of control. let me say this. there are -- did you hear his question? >> no. okay. the question was how -- he was talking about southern strategy, and different time periods in most recent times people have used a race to divide and what is the -- republican party thinking about this racial attack to up the base. there are people of good will in both parties. people see what i will say is early on that the -- that the republican party was watching the numbers they say we're going to watch numbers but number take and walk away from him and try to save everything for the the midterms. well this kind of late now. because numbers are just starting to tame. and the midterms around corner but i'll say this to you. there is something going on. president trump was -- was born out of the discontent look let me say this. you remember when bar

in the willie horton ad. these ads that were designed by consultants within the republican party.e other. whether the other is black, whether the other is hispanic, whether the other is muslim, jewish, asian. this is a long-standing policy and you made this point. you said, donald trump saw the republican party for what it was, not for what it is marketed as. that's your quote. and you're absolutely right. and what donald trump is good at, and this is way i say -- people say i give him stoo much credit, but i don't think you should ever underestimate anyone, particularly in a political campaign setting is that what he is good at is reading the tea leaves and tapping into things that already exist. >> and marketing things that already exist. i'll give you the last word on this. at the end of the day, there isn't a thing called trump. he just fits the republican base. the intellectual class are being trumpers or being sidelined. trumpism is the republican party. >> he's the president. he won the election. and you inherit the party. now, whether the party stays together or whether it