one was willie horton who murdered a boy stabbing him 19 times. d of a license, -- instead of a death sentence, horton received 10 we can passes from prison. he fled, kidnapped a couple, stabbing the man and raping his girlfriend. weekend prison passes, dukakis on crime. >> now that we have seen the ad, let's take a look at the [indiscernible] during its release. willie horton was arrested with three men for the robbery of a gas station. while they were there, one of the men stabbed a boy working at the time. no one admitted to the murder and pointed fingers at each other until detectives decided to blame horton. he denied it but was sentenced to life in prison. while there, he was given 10 weekend passes and on the 10th he ran. in breaking into a young couple's home he claimed he was innocent. horton never went by willie. the person who did the ad made that up. michael dukakis was the governor of massachusetts where fortune was convicted of robbery and murder. he opposed the death penalty and promoted furlough programs to ease tensions and provide

or it willie horton was not the only figure discussed in that spot, but it was based on the willieof people confuse the two. they think the first spot was a bush ad. it really wasn't, but there was some either spoken or unspoken coordination because they were so closely aligned. i think it's fair to say, worth pointing out that willie horton or at least not willie horton specifically, it was raised earlier in the primaries by out gore who was running for the democratic nomination against michael dukakis. he raised the furlough issue first and inspect it up. dukakis use the revolving door imagery in the --ponse, didn't they? guest: didn't they? guest: that is something i have seen curious. a lot of political and gators to tell the candidate, do not but i do notarge, know that it would be incompetent, but it was a poorly .un campaign in so many ways the dukakis campaign waited too long to respond. and aike one spot showing few minutes later, you see another spot on television, it was several weeks before dukakis figured out how to respond and that was the story of the .ukakis campaig

willie horton was not the only figure discussed in that spot, but it was based on the willie horton spote two. they think that first willie horton spot was a bush ad. it really was not, but it was clear there was some sort of either unspoken or spoken coordination between the two campaigns in producing that, because they were so closely aligned. i think it is fair, though, to say, it is worth pointing out, that willie horton, or at least not willie horton specifically, but the whole furlough program was first raised in the campaign earlier that year in the primaries, at a debate in new york by al gore, who was running for the democratic nomination against michael dukakis. he raised the furlough program first and then republicans picked it up in the general election. >> the democrats, the decagon may use that revolving door imagery in the response, i didn't day? >> yes, that's one of those things that i've always found a little curious. nancy reagan did it in a spot that we did earlier. it was one of the principles that a lot of political communicators tried to tell their candidates, don'

therefore, willie horton got a pass and assaults a couple. ore, weekend passes are a cause of violence. dukakis did support passes and horton did use his to commit violent crimes. however, not all prisoners who use weekend prison passes followed horton's example. these passes were typically awarded for good behavior. ad created widespread fear and anxiety about having a president who supported prison passes. as a result, it turned the tide in bush's favor. this ad was a low blow to his opponents campaign and went -- when dukakis failed to respond, bush sealed his victory. released july 15, 2020, and what relatively -- went relatively unnoticed. 2020 viceugust 26th, president mike pence said in an interview, you will not be saved in joe biden's america, which is the name and idea behind the ad. his statement gained traction and the trump campaign pushed the ad harder. this ad was a direct response to black lives matter protests covered heavily in the media in june and july, making it a perfect time for the trump campaign to promote the ad. it a

they did talk about willie horton a lot. they said at one point, i'm going to make willie horton be my running mate. it is not like he didn't have anything to do with it at ad itself was not baker's creation. he asked for them to take it down. we asked him about that and that was the one moment he said that the willie horton ad was probably something that was over the top and went too far but then takes a back and says, look, we had to win. we had to do what we had to do to win. they were 17 points down and came back to win the most extraordinary upset and presidential history to that date. host: let's go to sam, democrats line, maryland. caller: i address this question to susan glasser, who i read in the new yorker every week, knock strong, and rightly so. he is the worst president in american history. he is the biggest liar in american history. he is the most incompetent present to didn't -- incompetent president and you say that week after week after week and baker voted for him in 2016 and says he is going to vote him --

i think it is fair to say that it's worth pointing out that ecc willie hortonal or at least not willie raising the campaign earlier this year in the primaries in a debate in new . york by al goree running for th democratic nomination against michael dukakis.first an he raised the furlough program first and then the republicans picked it up in the general election. >> the democrats, though, the dukakis campaign used that revolving door imagery in theiry response, didn't they? >> yeah, that's one of those things that i've always found a little curious, nancy reagan did it in the spot we showed tell te earlier, it's one of the principles that a lot of political communicators try to bll their candidates, don't repeat the charge, but that whole dukakis campaign was is in study i don't want to say too s strong in says incompetence but it was a poorly run campaign in so many ways. the dukakis campaign waited way too long to respond. you see those two spots r, you juxtaposed and it's s like one r spot showing and voters a few minutes later seeing another spot on television. it was several week

one was willy horton. tence, horton received ten weekend passes from prison, he fled, kidnapped a and murdered a young couple. >> let's take a look at some of the backstory and context for the time surrounding its release. william horton was arrested along with three other men for the robbery of a gas station. no one admitted to the murder and pointed fingers at each other until the detectives decided to blame horton. while there, he was given ten weekend passes until on the tenth one, he ran. he was found miles away after breaking into a young couple's home assaulting them. one interesting thing about horton was that he never went by willy. the organization who founded the ad made that up. as for michael dukakis, he was the governor of massachusetts where horton was convicted of robbery and murder. he opposed the death penalty and promoted furlough programs to provide fe provide felons a gradual release into society. the ad ran for a month on cable networks. it was eventually taken down and replaced with a

they thought that willie horton spot was a bush ad.it was some kind of coordination between the two campaigns in producing. that they were so closely aligned. it's fair to say that it's worth pointing out that will be horton or at least will be horton specifically, but the whole for a program in the primaries in that debate in the new york by all, gordon was running for the democratic nomination against michael dukakis. he raised the furlough program first and republicans picked it up in the general election. >> democrats though they use that revolving door imagery in their response at didn't they? >> yeah that's one of those things that i have always found a little curious. nancy reagan did in the spot that we showed earlier. it was one of the principles that the political communicators try to tell their candidates don't repeat the charge. that whole dukakis campaign was a study i want to be too strong and saying competence. he was really poorly run campaign in so many ways. the caucus campaign waited way too long to respond. she thos

he's not exactly willie horton. >> but president trump got his people out. >> sure. but he didn't win over the suburban -- >> his theory of this election was that if trump has his own people, and if he brings enough of them out, he can win. he got somewhat close, but, obviously, it was not enough. i do think that there is a choice facing republicans now about what you're saying which is, you know, is that message a ham-handed message? or is it the best we've got? i don't know that they fully settled on what the answer to that is. >> i think if you give truth serum to republican elected leaders, most of them, they will say it's not the best they've got. that it's maybe the opposite of the best they've got on that. one thing i want to say just going back to the whole comments that mr. clyburn just made about, you know, progressives and moderates and how he doesn't like those terms and everyone just has to figure out how to deal together, we know how hard that is going forward. >> i don't like those terms. >> we know how hard it's going to be. >> come on. >> listen, all

therefore willie horton got a pass and vaulted the couple. therefore, it's the cause of violence. dukakis did support prison passes and horton did use it to commit crimes. however not all prisoners who use weekend passes follow in horton's example. in fact, these passes were typically awarded for good behavior. as sidney mentioned, this ad spread widespread fear and anxiety about having a president who supported prison passes. as a result it turned the tide in bush's favor. this ad was a pretty low blow to his opponent's campaign. when dukakis failed to respond for a significant amount of time, bush had sealed his victory. >> this ad was released on july 15th, 2020 and went relatively unnoticed, as much as any election ad can. however, on august 26th, 2020, vice president mike pence said during an interview you won't be safe in joe biden's america, which, obviously, is the name of an idea behind the ad. his statement gained a lot of traction and as a result the trump campaign pushed the ad significantly harder. this ad was a direct response to specific violent black lives matter pr